[clarkson]

Hi guys
Iam looking to get a bit quicker on block work.

We have a whirlaway but find it ineffective on heavy soiling , so do
a lot of turbo nozzle instead.

Someone told me recently a21 inch mosmatic is far more effective  at large areas of blockpaving

Is this the case and do you need 21lpm to be effective

Cheers
John

[Smurf]

You could run a 21 lpm washer or higher with any size fsg but still  if you don't have the right type/size jets in them they still can be ineffective on pavers.

I just use a 15 lpm machine with a 18" whirlaway with correct size/type jets in and it works a treat. Obviously using 21 or higher lpm pw will be quicker to work with than a 15 lpm. After sayng that I have other fsc's that came with the box standard jets that are pants so it's the jet type/size that makes the big difference if you ask me.

If need be for really stubbon algae staining and the dreaded black spot then all I do is treat the surface with hypo either before or after using a fsc etc. On some jobs I've been known not to use a pressure washer at all as just hypo it instead but last time I mentioned this I got a bit of stick.

I've started to find that some customers don't really want the crap blasted out of their hard surfaces as most opratives tend to do using cold water pressure washing method so I'm leaning more towards the soft wash route myself not just hypo but biocides too.

[Kev Martin]

Hi guys
Iam looking to get a bit quicker on block work.

We have a whirlaway but find it ineffective on heavy soiling , so do
a lot of turbo nozzle instead.

Someone told me recently a21 inch mosmatic is far more effective  at large areas of blockpaving

Is this the case and do you need 21lpm to be effective

Cheers
John

Buy yourself a 17" Mono Rotary Machine

[Kev Martin]

You could run a 21 lpm washer or higher with any size fsg but still  if you don't have the right type/size jets in them they still can be ineffective on pavers.

I just use a 15 lpm machine with a 18" whirlaway with correct size/type jets in and it works a treat. Obviously using 21 or higher lpm pw will be quicker to work with than a 15 lpm. After sayng that I have other fsc's that came with the box standard jets that are pants so it's the jet type/size that makes the big difference if you ask me.

If need be for really stubbon algae staining and the dreaded black spot then all I do is treat the surface with hypo either before or after using a fsc etc. On some jobs I've been known not to use a pressure washer at all as just hypo it instead but last time I mentioned this I got a bit of stick.

I've started to find that some customers don't really want the crap blasted out of their hard surfaces as most opratives tend to do using cold water pressure washing method so I'm leaning more towards the soft wash route myself not just hypo but biocides too.

Buy yourself a 17" Mono Rotary Machine then   Mind you I don't think Lidl sell them yet

[Smurf]

I will keep a look out for one Kev 

[clarkson]

hi guys
funny our machine is 16lpm and the whirlaway has the correct jets, but it is poor and very slow ?

kev are the 17 inch rotary very pricey ?

john

[clarkson]

kev
we find softwash very effective on render but not so much on blocks? 

what mix are you using , we mix at about 4litres of hypo at 14% and 125ml of soap 21litres of water?

john

[Smurf]

Kev uses a total different approch to sofwashing bud.

The rotory he is on about is a mono rotory floor scrubber/polisher the type used for indoor surfaces not a fsc.  To clean a surface like outdoor pavers etc the surface is sprayed with Mirical Sealents HDAC, rotory scrubbed and then vaccumed up. Once dry the pavers can then be sealed.

I did say it was a totally different approach 

[Kev Martin]

kev
we find softwash very effective on render but not so much on blocks? 

what mix are you using , we mix at about 4litres of hypo at 14% and 125ml of soap 21litres of water?

john

John

The big difference with using a Mono Rotary Scrubber is that you are not blasting the sh*t out of the surface.

To clean using a Mono Rotary Scrubber you need to ensure you have the correct brush fitted for the surface.  Coupled with the correct cleaner diluted accordingly.  This gives you a chemical and mechanical clean especially if you use Honing Powder as well as then you have chemical, mechanical and abrasive clean all in one.

The method is

1.  Pre wet the surface so it is saturated with clean water.
2.  Fill the MRS Water Tank with the appropriate cleaner for the surface.  ( So either PSRP Heavy Duty XTreme  High Alkaline or Miracle Heavy Duty Acidic Cleaner diluted according to the level of soiling.)  Then apply to whole section or area and allow to dwell.
3.  Agitate with MRS fitted with appropriate brush and then extract.
4.  Rinse with clean water and extract again.

If stage 3 does not do the job you can carry out 2 further steps by:

a.  Increasing the cleaner to water ratio
b.  Add honing powder

However, I will point out you should know all this in advance by carrying out a " Small Test Area"  beforehand.

I have never encountered a Hard Floor inside or outside that I cannot clean effectively using this method. 

In trials I conducted personally on Block Paving, Slabs, Solid Concrete, Indian Sandstone and Tarmac this method beats any pressure washer or FSC hands down that I have ever tried it against.  I carried out these tests using a T3 Falch 300bar 21 L/Min  Heated water pressure washer fitted with a 30" FSC with Vacuum extraction.

I will also point out that this method is IMHO more efficient and produces a better result with less mess in no way am I implying it is quicker!

[Smurf]

Or the much simpler and cowboy approach is to use very strong hypo mix instead.

soak the surrounding run off areas very well including grass, boarders, plants, shrubs etc with tap water
wet the surface down
apply 7% hypo (14% neat if you’re a real cowboy)
agitate with a stiff brush
let dwell for 30 mins to an hour not letting the surface dry out and re-apply if need be.
rinse off with a hose. Including soaking again any runoff areas like grass, boarders, plants, shrubs etc
then take the money and ride off into the sunset... Yehaa ride em cowboy... Job done! works well for me     

[Mike Halliday]

kev
we find softwash very effective on render but not so much on blocks? 

what mix are you using , we mix at about 4litres of hypo at 14% and 125ml of soap 21litres of water?

john

John

The big difference with using a Mono Rotary Scrubber is that you are not blasting the sh*t out of the surface.

To clean using a Mono Rotary Scrubber you need to ensure you have the correct brush fitted for the surface.  Coupled with the correct cleaner diluted accordingly.  This gives you a chemical and mechanical clean especially if you use Honing Powder as well as then you have chemical, mechanical and abrasive clean all in one.

The method is

1.  Pre wet the surface so it is saturated with clean water.
2.  Fill the MRS Water Tank with the appropriate cleaner for the surface.  ( So either PSRP Heavy Duty XTreme  High Alkaline or Miracle Heavy Duty Acidic Cleaner diluted according to the level of soiling.)  Then apply to whole section or area and allow to dwell.
3.  Agitate with MRS fitted with appropriate brush and then extract.
4.  Rinse with clean water and extract again.

If stage 3 does not do the job you can carry out 2 further steps by:

a.  Increasing the cleaner to water ratio
b.  Add honing powder

However, I will point out you should know all this in advance by carrying out a " Small Test Area"  beforehand.

I have never encountered a Hard Floor inside or outside that I cannot clean effectively using this method. 

In trials I conducted personally on Block Paving, Slabs, Solid Concrete, Indian Sandstone and Tarmac this method beats any pressure washer or FSC hands down that I have ever tried it against.  I carried out these tests using a T3 Falch 300bar 21 L/Min  Heated water pressure washer fitted with a 30" FSC with Vacuum extraction.

I will also point out that this method is IMHO more efficient and produces a better result with less mess in no way am I implying it is quicker!

Funny how results differ I have also tried a rotry and a cimex with various brushed including scarifying brushes and it lead me to believe the above is a load of absulute crap, (I tried to post my actual opinion but the swear filter altered it)  to be honest I don't believe a word of it

[Kev Martin]

Or the much simpler and cowboy approach is to use very strong hypo mix instead.

soak the surrounding run off areas very well including grass, boarders, plants, shrubs etc with tap water
wet the surface down
apply 7% hypo (14% neat if you’re a real cowboy)
agitate with a stiff brush
let dwell for 30 mins to an hour not letting the surface dry out and re-apply if need be.
rinse off with a hose. Including soaking again any runoff areas like grass, boarders, plants, shrubs etc
then take the money and ride off into the sunset... Yehaa ride em cowboy... Job done! works well for me 

Yeah!  Fab idea until you come across a commercial environment or a savvy householder who decides to take you  for every penny you have

Or do you think your liability insurance will pay???

Have a read of this:

The most obvious danger of Chlorine Bleach is printed clearly on the label. It is a heavily corrosive material capable of irritating the eyes, skin and respiratory tract often by simply inhaling the gases its use emits. This inhalation has been noted to deteriorate the lungs and esophagus lining in addition to the scarring of the respiratory tract . These side effects may not occur to a visibly notable extent with each exposure to bleach, but the chemicals impact is never favourable, especially over a long period of time.

It is important to note that there is no organisation that regulates the cleaning products that are brought or taken into the home. Instead groups such as the HSE make warnings of the use of Chlorine Bleach publicly available. Under the assumption that consumers will continue to use Chlorine Bleach within their households, the following safety precautions are widely recommended:

If you must use it dilute the chlorine bleach heavily with water.  3% is the maximum recommended amount but better even below this level.  The lower concentration poses a potentially lesser risk of unwanted exposure.
Wear a safety mask and rubber gloves when working with bleach as a preventative measure.
Only use chlorine bleach in a well ventilated area to allow for sufficient air flow and to prevent the unwanted gasses from remaining stationary in the working space.
Never mix chlorine bleach with any other household cleaners.
The fourth and final recommendation is particularly worth noting because mixed with common ingredients -such as ammonia -found in many other household cleaners the fumes produced can become even more lethal and potentially fatal. Nose bleeds, neurological disorders, headaches, shortness of breath and chest pain, are just a small number of the potential side effects that can be experienced.

As helpful as these safety precautions can be, why not just stop using bleach altogether? Thankfully there are healthier and much safer alternatives !!!

[Kev Martin]

kev
we find softwash very effective on render but not so much on blocks? 

what mix are you using , we mix at about 4litres of hypo at 14% and 125ml of soap 21litres of water?

john

John

The big difference with using a Mono Rotary Scrubber is that you are not blasting the sh*t out of the surface.

To clean using a Mono Rotary Scrubber you need to ensure you have the correct brush fitted for the surface.  Coupled with the correct cleaner diluted accordingly.  This gives you a chemical and mechanical clean especially if you use Honing Powder as well as then you have chemical, mechanical and abrasive clean all in one.

The method is

1.  Pre wet the surface so it is saturated with clean water.
2.  Fill the MRS Water Tank with the appropriate cleaner for the surface.  ( So either PSRP Heavy Duty XTreme  High Alkaline or Miracle Heavy Duty Acidic Cleaner diluted according to the level of soiling.)  Then apply to whole section or area and allow to dwell.
3.  Agitate with MRS fitted with appropriate brush and then extract.
4.  Rinse with clean water and extract again.

If stage 3 does not do the job you can carry out 2 further steps by:

a.  Increasing the cleaner to water ratio
b.  Add honing powder

However, I will point out you should know all this in advance by carrying out a " Small Test Area"  beforehand.

I have never encountered a Hard Floor inside or outside that I cannot clean effectively using this method. 

In trials I conducted personally on Block Paving, Slabs, Solid Concrete, Indian Sandstone and Tarmac this method beats any pressure washer or FSC hands down that I have ever tried it against.  I carried out these tests using a T3 Falch 300bar 21 L/Min  Heated water pressure washer fitted with a 30" FSC with Vacuum extraction.

I will also point out that this method is IMHO more efficient and produces a better result with less mess in no way am I implying it is quicker!

Funny how results differ I have also tried a rotry and a cimex with various brushed including scarifying brushes and it lead me to believe the above is a load of absulute crap, (I tried to post my actual opinion but the swear filter altered it)  to be honest I don't believe a word of it

Mike

Believe what you want!  One thing I don't do is tell lies sunshine!  Furthermore, I resent your post Especially as a Moderator it is tantamount to calling me "A Liar"  All my experience is genuine based on fact  and real life using the correct machines.

So which bit is crap?

I didn't do the tests and comparisons?
I don't know anything about hard floor cleaning?
I have never had 3 different Falch Machines?
I am dreaming the information up?

I thought you were primarily a Carpet Cleaner who has done some Pressure Washing.  I had no idea you were a Professional Hard Floor Restorer as well!!!  Incidentally Professional  Stone Restoration and Cleaning  is a little bit more involved than throwing some Hypo on stone

[Smurf]

Or the much simpler and cowboy approach is to use very strong hypo mix instead.

soak the surrounding run off areas very well including grass, boarders, plants, shrubs etc with tap water
wet the surface down
apply 7% hypo (14% neat if you’re a real cowboy)
agitate with a stiff brush
let dwell for 30 mins to an hour not letting the surface dry out and re-apply if need be.
rinse off with a hose. Including soaking again any runoff areas like grass, boarders, plants, shrubs etc
then take the money and ride off into the sunset... Yehaa ride em cowboy... Job done! works well for me 

Yeah!  Fab idea until you come across a commercial environment or a savvy householder who decides to take you  for every penny you have

Or do you think your liability insurance will pay???

Have a read of this:

The most obvious danger of Chlorine Bleach is printed clearly on the label. It is a heavily corrosive material capable of irritating the eyes, skin and respiratory tract often by simply inhaling the gases its use emits. This inhalation has been noted to deteriorate the lungs and esophagus lining in addition to the scarring of the respiratory tract . These side effects may not occur to a visibly notable extent with each exposure to bleach, but the chemicals impact is never favourable, especially over a long period of time.

It is important to note that there is no organisation that regulates the cleaning products that are brought or taken into the home. Instead groups such as the HSE make warnings of the use of Chlorine Bleach publicly available. Under the assumption that consumers will continue to use Chlorine Bleach within their households, the following safety precautions are widely recommended:

If you must use it dilute the chlorine bleach heavily with water.  3% is the maximum recommended amount but better even below this level.  The lower concentration poses a potentially lesser risk of unwanted exposure.
Wear a safety mask and rubber gloves when working with bleach as a preventative measure.
Only use chlorine bleach in a well ventilated area to allow for sufficient air flow and to prevent the unwanted gasses from remaining stationary in the working space.
Never mix chlorine bleach with any other household cleaners.
The fourth and final recommendation is particularly worth noting because mixed with common ingredients -such as ammonia -found in many other household cleaners the fumes produced can become even more lethal and potentially fatal. Nose bleeds, neurological disorders, headaches, shortness of breath and chest pain, are just a small number of the potential side effects that can be experienced.

As helpful as these safety precautions can be, why not just stop using bleach altogether? Thankfully there are healthier and much safer alternatives !!!

I did thanks but I'm a very responsible user honest guv.
Oh and by the way I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as Chlorine bleach if you want to get picky

[Kev Martin]

I did thanks but I'm a very responsible user honest guv.
Oh and by the way I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as Chlorine bleach if you want to get picky
[/quote]

Well Wyatt "Pretty Sure " doesn't cut it does it???

Chlorine-based bleaches are found in many household cleaners. The concentration of chlorine-based bleaches is often expressed as percent active chlorine where one gram of a 100% active chlorine bleach has the same bleaching power as one gram of chlorine. These bleaches can react with other common household chemicals like vinegar or ammonia to produce toxic gases. Labels on sodium hypochlorite bleach warn about these interactions.

[Smurf]

 

[Kev Martin]

I often reflect if all you guys using pressure washers ever check to see if the supplier of the Hard Floor has an "Escape Clause"

About 10 years ago when damage from Pressure Washers became more prolific due mainly to the increased sales and ever increasing popularity of PW's  from the likes of certain sheds many suppliers of Natural Stone especially concrete block pavers included an "Escape Clause" .  This  essentially states that a Pressure Washer is not to be used on their products for cleaning them under any circumstances and any damage (such as striations,  turbo nozzle marks, loss of colour) etc etc would not be covered and they weren't responsible if a PW was used.

All I am pointing out is "think on "  because if you are asked to clean a Hard Floor of any description and you do damage it with a PW you may be held liable  for any damage.  At the end of the day just something else to think about

Incidentally how many of you know the difference between a Concrete Paviour and a Clay Paviour??

[Smurf]

I often reflect if all you guys using pressure washers ever check to see if the supplier of the Hard Floor has an "Escape Clause"

About 10 years ago when damage from Pressure Washers became more prolific due mainly to the increased sales and ever increasing popularity of PW's  from the likes of certain sheds many suppliers of Natural Stone especially concrete block pavers included an "Escape Clause" .  This  essentially states that a Pressure Washer is not to be used on their products for cleaning them under any circumstances and any damage (such as striations,  turbo nozzle marks, loss of colour) etc etc would not be covered and they weren't responsible if a PW was used.

All I am pointing out is "think on "  because if you are asked to clean a Hard Floor of any description and you do damage it with a PW you may be held liable  for any damage.  At the end of the day just something else to think about

Incidentally how many of you know the difference between a Concrete Paviour and a Clay Paviour??

Easist way is use a red tip on one and you will soon find out 

[Mike Halliday]

kev
we find softwash very effective on render but not so much on blocks? 

what mix are you using , we mix at about 4litres of hypo at 14% and 125ml of soap 21litres of water?

john

John

The big difference with using a Mono Rotary Scrubber is that you are not blasting the sh*t out of the surface.

To clean using a Mono Rotary Scrubber you need to ensure you have the correct brush fitted for the surface.  Coupled with the correct cleaner diluted accordingly.  This gives you a chemical and mechanical clean especially if you use Honing Powder as well as then you have chemical, mechanical and abrasive clean all in one.

The method is

1.  Pre wet the surface so it is saturated with clean water.
2.  Fill the MRS Water Tank with the appropriate cleaner for the surface.  ( So either PSRP Heavy Duty XTreme  High Alkaline or Miracle Heavy Duty Acidic Cleaner diluted according to the level of soiling.)  Then apply to whole section or area and allow to dwell.
3.  Agitate with MRS fitted with appropriate brush and then extract.
4.  Rinse with clean water and extract again.

If stage 3 does not do the job you can carry out 2 further steps by:

a.  Increasing the cleaner to water ratio
b.  Add honing powder

However, I will point out you should know all this in advance by carrying out a " Small Test Area"  beforehand.

I have never encountered a Hard Floor inside or outside that I cannot clean effectively using this method. 

In trials I conducted personally on Block Paving, Slabs, Solid Concrete, Indian Sandstone and Tarmac this method beats any pressure washer or FSC hands down that I have ever tried it against.  I carried out these tests using a T3 Falch 300bar 21 L/Min  Heated water pressure washer fitted with a 30" FSC with Vacuum extraction.

I will also point out that this method is IMHO more efficient and produces a better result with less mess in no way am I implying it is quicker!

Funny how results differ I have also tried a rotry and a cimex with various brushed including scarifying brushes and it lead me to believe the above is a load of absulute crap, (I tried to post my actual opinion but the swear filter altered it)  to be honest I don't believe a word of it

Mike

Believe what you want!  One thing I don't do is tell lies sunshine!  Furthermore, I resent your post Especially as a Moderator it is tantamount to calling me "A Liar"  All my experience is genuine based on fact  and real life using the correct machines.

So which bit is crap?

I didn't do the tests and comparisons?
I don't know anything about hard floor cleaning?
I have never had 3 different Falch Machines?
I am dreaming the information up?

I thought you were primarily a Carpet Cleaner who has done some Pressure Washing.  I had no idea you were a Professional Hard Floor Restorer as well!!!  Incidentally Professional  Stone Restoration and Cleaning  is a little bit more involved than throwing some Hypo on stone

My opinion is you are lying, I don't believe you......  me being a moderator has no relevance on my beliefs.

 I also find your post to be insulting to all the professional pressure washing companies who  post on here, who are  pressure washing  outside areas every day,  of every week  every year........not just doing little test areas then spouting how it should be done.

My biggest worry is a new starter reads yours post above and orders all the chemicals & equipment you recommend.

I'm not a hard floor restorer , I'm a pressure washing company who has done more pressure washing this week that I believe you have done in your life ( based on the nonsense you talk about it)

When it comes to cleaning outside areas You type intelligent crap, it reads well and sounds like you know what you are on about but it's still crap and you might think you are getting away with it but the guys who are doing this work full time recognise it as the crap it is.

[Smurf]

I just do a few now and then but I can understand your frustration Mike.
Lets just say you both agree to disagree and kiss and make up before it ends in tears   

Anyway just hypo the crap out of it ...Job done!