[Kev Martin]

Ammonium Hydrogen Diflouride, Phosphoric Acid, Water, Trade secret ingredients
Barf9 is  acid .

Don't tell him you twit

Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now.

Actually you are completely wrong!!!   Any acid with a pH below 3.5 is known as an Ultra Acid.  Acid with a pH of 5.4 is strong enough to screw stone up and that is a 100 times weaker.  I went to a house once to restore their Marble.  We spent 5 days grinding and polishing it to perfection.  We went back in the following morning to seal it and get the job signed off for payment to find the whole floor wrecked with acid etching everywhere.  They tried blaming us telling us we had probably screwed up in the final polishing process.  I examined the floor scratching my head trying to determine how there were hundreds of acid etch marks all over the floor then lo and behold their 15 month old daughter came flying in to the empty room in a baby walker burbling and gurgling flicking diluted orange squash everywhere from some sort of feeder cup.  That child had inadvertently caused nearly Ł3K worth of damage in less than an hour with a cup of weak diluted orange cordial and wrecked the whole floor and a weeks hard work.

[chris scott]

"Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now. "……obviously not .

The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value. For example, pH 4 is ten times more acidic than pH 5 and 100 times (10 times 10) more acidic than pH 6. The same holds true for pH values above 7, each of which is ten times more alkaline (another way to say basic) than the next lower whole value. For example, pH 10 is ten times more alkaline than pH 9 and 100 times (10 times 10) more alkaline than pH 8.

Generally we find (within our trade) rust staining on walls (render, weber, brick work) and patio's ( sandstone, concrete and a variety of lime stones). I would be 5hitting myself useing an acid like  Barf f9 on any of these….but as always the Americans have the answer .

[chris scott]

Shingles or Rosemary's?

[Smurf]

"Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now. "……obviously not .

The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value. For example, pH 4 is ten times more acidic than pH 5 and 100 times (10 times 10) more acidic than pH 6. The same holds true for pH values above 7, each of which is ten times more alkaline (another way to say basic) than the next lower whole value. For example, pH 10 is ten times more alkaline than pH 9 and 100 times (10 times 10) more alkaline than pH 8.

Generally we find (within our trade) rust staining on walls (render, weber, brick work) and patio's ( sandstone, concrete and a variety of lime stones). I would be 5hitting myself useing an acid like  Barf f9 on any of these….but as always the Americans have the answer .

Vinegar has a ph value of 2.2 which going by what you say is a stronger acid than barf so how do you work that one out then chris?

[Kev Martin]

"Believe it or not I can read a ph scale... 
At ph of 3.4 it’s not exactly a strong acid is it now. "……obviously not .

The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value. For example, pH 4 is ten times more acidic than pH 5 and 100 times (10 times 10) more acidic than pH 6. The same holds true for pH values above 7, each of which is ten times more alkaline (another way to say basic) than the next lower whole value. For example, pH 10 is ten times more alkaline than pH 9 and 100 times (10 times 10) more alkaline than pH 8.

Generally we find (within our trade) rust staining on walls (render, weber, brick work) and patio's ( sandstone, concrete and a variety of lime stones). I would be 5hitting myself useing an acid like  Barf f9 on any of these….but as always the Americans have the answer .

Vinegar has a ph value of 2.2 which going by what you say is a stronger acid than barf so how do you work that one out then chris?

Vinegar is a different acid it is Acetic and yes it is stronger but so is Lemon Juice.  That's why I posted the example above of the child with the Diluted Cordial.  Acid does not need to be strong to do damage.  Both the Barf and  Vinegar are both classed as Ultra Acids they are both below 3.5 on the pH Scale

[Smurf]

If that is the case if it was so dangerous to use why is it still being sold to the trade and even sold in the likes of lowes & home depot for home owners to use themselves. 

I'm sure this reputable company would not be stocking it either if it was so hazardous to use http://www.jracenstein.com/item/320%2D615/rust-remover-f9-b-a-r-c-gallon/

Yes we all now it's an acidic product as you yourself kev have been recommending and selling the original miracle sealer hdac product for years.

[Mike Halliday]

Just to confuse things further

Acid does not exist nether does alkali it's like fast or slow.... Or heavy or light.

 Ph is a unit of measure just like  MPH or Kg it has no ability to damage anything just like if I said I was hurt by 13st 5lbs..... it's not a physical entity it is a measurement. if something damages a surface it's the product that damaged the surface,

Ultra acid who made that term  up? It's not a measurement used in the scientific community.

Ph it's self is not an indicator of how damaging or strong a products is, I use an acid at Ph1 on 100% wool and delicate fabrics with perfect safety were  most damage done in the cleaning of fabrics & carpets is done by using too strong an alkali based solution.

[Smurf]

In laymans terms I just want a rust remover product that is tried and tested, easy to apply, works quickly and is safe to use on a variety of substrates without all the messing about with scrubbing, using pastes etc. That is why I like the look of f9 barc myself.
 

[Smurf]

Going to try and steam it off on Monday.

Also had reports of plants starting to die in the area! And sticky window sills after they have been cleaned.

What a cock up!

How did you get on James?

[ascjim]

It did come off, but made a mess of underneath.

The hypo also stained the front door and killed some plants. Easier to get the insurance company involved now. It's out of my hair

[chris scott]

It did come off, but made a mess of underneath.

The hypo also stained the front door and killed some plants. Easier to get the insurance company involved now. It's out of my hair

So us reputable contractors can then pay long term for amateurs  who think it is easy

[Kev Martin]

If that is the case if it was so dangerous to use why is it still being sold to the trade and even sold in the likes of lowes & home depot for home owners to use themselves. 

I'm sure this reputable company would not be stocking it either if it was so hazardous to use http://www.jracenstein.com/item/320%2D615/rust-remover-f9-b-a-r-c-gallon/

Yes we all now it's an acidic product as you yourself kev have been recommending and selling the original miracle sealer hdac product for years.

Smurf

You are missing the whole point of my post.  I was explaining / clarifying  the damage that some acids cause full stop!  Miracle HDAC is a buffered acid and yes it can do damage used in the wrong situation.  The post however, was pointing out your misconception  that because it was only 3.5 on the pH scale you thought it was harmless.  The point is I don't mind what you think about Miracle Products because at the end of the day your not going to use them anyway but don't knock something you have not tried either and ultimately  your not going to use Barca either unless Lidl start selling it.

[Kev Martin]

It did come off, but made a mess of underneath.

The hypo also stained the front door and killed some plants. Easier to get the insurance company involved now. It's out of my hair

James

You asked for advice then did your own thing anyway!

[Kev Martin]

Just to confuse things further

Acid does not exist nether does alkali it's like fast or slow.... Or heavy or light.

 Ph is a unit of measure just like  MPH or Kg it has no ability to damage anything just like if I said I was hurt by 13st 5lbs..... it's not a physical entity it is a measurement. if something damages a surface it's the product that damaged the surface,

Ultra acid who made that term  up? It's not a measurement used in the scientific community.

Ph it's self is not an indicator of how damaging or strong a products is, I use an acid at Ph1 on 100% wool and delicate fabrics with perfect safety were  most damage done in the cleaning of fabrics & carpets is done by using too strong an alkali based solution.

    Confused I Am