[Rayleigh Window Cleaning Services]

Hi Everyone.

Could I have some clarification please.

I have been using leisure batteries since going over to pole system in 2007.

Yesterday one of the van batteries decided not to play half way through the day, after being charged the night before.

So I got my young lad to go to the place we purchased this battery and buy a replacement, and whilst there find out when the old battery was purchased.

Turns out it was 23 months ago and there was a 2 year guarantee. Result

No. The guy serving said this battery is not being used for what it was designed for! and would have to speak to his boss who is not in till Friday. Theres a surprise.

The guy actually told my lad that the battery was for "Short bursts e.g starting a car"

So basically I need to know what my chances are of getting a refund or are they in there rights to say no.

It's not the paying out for the item it's the principle regarding a guarantee.

Thanks for reading

Steve

[Frankybadboy]

leisure battery for starting cars now thats a new one

[EandM]

Perhaps it's for starting leisurely cars...like Jaaags

[duncan h]

lets  get this right.
Your van battery died not leisure battery?
You use leisure for pole, not van battery. Is split charger used.
If they know a leisure battery is used to start  the van, your screwed

[Rayleigh Window Cleaning Services]

No.. Van battery separate.
This is the battery that runs the system, it is independent of the van battery.
It was playing up yesterday and decided to replace, the guy at the shop  said a cell had failed when he tested it, he told my lad it was knackered.
There is a split relay but limited mileage for this van, so needs a charge every few days.

[Dave Willis]

Several of mine barely got past twelve months they always refused to replace them, accusing me of using a cheap charger, or telling me they tested it and there's nothing wrong with it. Basically the more times you charge them the faster they deteriorate.  I tried leisure  batteries and car batteries - didn't seem to make a lot of difference. Haven't bought a battery now for the last six years. I run my pump of one of my Hiaces twin batteries which are now ten years old.

[Rob clarke]

Halfords where I live replace them I just don't tell them what I'm using it for   

[Ian Lancaster]

Several of mine barely got past twelve months they always refused to replace them, accusing me of using a cheap charger, or telling me they tested it and there's nothing wrong with it. Basically the more times you charge them the faster they deteriorate.  I tried leisure  batteries and car batteries - didn't seem to make a lot of difference. Haven't bought a battery now for the last six years. I run my pump of one of my Hiaces twin batteries which are now ten years old.

We use all sorts of batteries, rarely buy new ones.  A good alternative is used mobility scooter batteries - a scooter needs a lot of umph to shove it along, a WFP pump doesn't so when a scooter battery is no longer man enough to scoot, it's still got a lot of pumping life in it.

Try your local scooter dealer/repair shop - they just take them to the nearest recycle station.

[Spruce]

Numax have told me that they refuse warranty of a leisure battery used for window cleaning as they barely last 6 months.  My 110 amp Numax lasted me over 3 years and the 85 amph lasted 4 years on his van. Its still in the garage at the moment.

Grippatank are agents or were agents for Numax. I'm not sure how they deal with or dealt with warranty issues with Numax.

Battery manufacturers are like insurance agents - they will try anything to reject a claim.

I bet when you go back on Friday the guy won't be in till Monday and the guy on the counter your employee spoke to will deny saying that the leisure battery is only to be used for short bursts like starting your engine.

By the way, leisure batteries are used in the caravaning world. There is also an accessory available called a caravan mover. This works with heavy duty motors against the wheels to help maneuver the caravan into place driven by the leisure battery. Most leisure batteries also have a CCA value in their spec. CCA = Cold Cranking Amps.

-

[duncan h]

Look guys. Buy a Halfords battery. Purchase online and get it half price.  They are good quality.
Any problems, they swap in store. Most places are a pain. Some even send back to manufacturer
Halfords workers go care. They connect it to tester, if it fails they swap instantly.
Just walk in the shop with it. Say its off your caravan.

I studied this in depth after buying 2 Varta van batteries online, 1 being knackered. Got an auto electrician to write a letter saying its duff. That was no good.
Ended up getting a free battery test from Halfords. That they accepted.
Halfords just swap, no messing. So just before 2 year warranty is up, kill it  and get a new one for free

[Ian Sheppard]

Numax have told me that they refuse warranty of a leisure battery used for window cleaning as they barely last 6 months.  My 110 amp Numax lasted me over 3 years and the 85 amph lasted 4 years on his van. Its still in the garage at the moment.

Grippatank are agents or were agents for Numax. I'm not sure how they deal with or dealt with warranty issues with Numax.

Battery manufacturers are like insurance agents - they will try anything to reject a claim.

I bet when you go back on Friday the guy won't be in till Monday and the guy on the counter your employee spoke to will deny saying that the leisure battery is only to be used for short bursts like starting your engine.

By the way, leisure batteries are used in the caravaning world. There is also an accessory available called a caravan mover. This works with heavy duty motors against the wheels to help maneuver the caravan into place driven by the leisure battery. Most leisure batteries also have a CCA value in their spec. CCA = Cold Cranking Amps.

-

At 23 months old bearing in mind all the discharge and recharge cycles the battery has been through it has lasted well. I would guess what you saw with the volt drop of in the middle of the day,  was a sign of the Lead cells becoming covered with crystalised sulpher. Over time this hardens and reduces the cells ability to hold a charge.  While a leisure battery is better suited to WFP as it is designed for slow discharge over a period. Continued  over 6 - 8 hours a day repeatedly as used in WFP will shorten the life.
A leisure battery uses much thicker lead cells to allow for this slow discharge and recharge cycle

A Vehicle battery conversely is designed for a very short high power discharge associated with starting the engine. They have thinner lead cells to accommodate this. So perhaps the poor shop assistant got a bit mixed up

[ChumBucket]

I don't think the difference between modern car batteries and leisure batteries is as great as might once have been. Car batteries now have to cater for so much more than they originally did.
 Like Dave Willis, I also run my pump direct from the van's own battery and have done for over 12 years (my van only has One battery where Dave's has Two). A top of the range battery will last me around 2 years before it begins to suffer- which is when I change it. Although these batteries come with 4/5 year guarantees I never take them back, £70/80 online price for a top tier Bosch battery with 2 years hassle free performance is ok for me.

[duncan h]

I don't think the difference between modern car batteries and leisure batteries is as great as might once have been. Car batteries now have to cater for so much more than they originally did.
 Like Dave Willis, I also run my pump direct from the van's own battery and have done for over 12 years (my van only has One battery where Dave's has Two). A top of the range battery will last me around 2 years before it begins to suffer- which is when I change it. Although these batteries come with 4/5 year guarantees I never take them back, £70/80 online price for a top tier Bosch battery with 2 years hassle free performance is ok for me.

Had my van 4 years and ran it directly from its dual battery system.
I now have a 3 battery set up. 3rd being a massive leisure battery. Its the same to use

[Rayleigh Window Cleaning Services]

UPDATE - Went in  as arranged this afternoon and saw the main man.

Seemed to know a fair bit regarding battery issues and usage, as you'd expect.

First thing he told me was the leisure battery was not the ideal battery for the work I am doing!

He was telling me about the Trojan battery which has come from USA and apparently has thicker cell plates and is just more suited for water fed system in his opinion.

They are about £40 more for an equivalent leisure battery so no great expense if you get some years out of it.

As with my issue I was quite surprised to be honest as I was given a replacement battery for £60, which he said was a pro rata  discount and good will as there was only one month left of guarantee ., should have been £126. I wasn't going to argue for what it's cost over 2 years.

Having got this sorted I am now thinking next time round I might look into these Trojan batteries.

Has anyone else heard of them or know much about them?

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

Steve

[Spruce]

UPDATE - Went in  as arranged this afternoon and saw the main man.

Seemed to know a fair bit regarding battery issues and usage, as you'd expect.

First thing he told me was the leisure battery was not the ideal battery for the work I am doing!

He was telling me about the Trojan battery which has come from USA and apparently has thicker cell plates and is just more suited for water fed system in his opinion.

They are about £40 more for an equivalent leisure battery so no great expense if you get some years out of it.

As with my issue I was quite surprised to be honest as I was given a replacement battery for £60, which he said was a pro rata  discount and good will as there was only one month left of guarantee ., should have been £126. I wasn't going to argue for what it's cost over 2 years.

Having got this sorted I am now thinking next time round I might look into these Trojan batteries.

Has anyone else heard of them or know much about them?

Thanks to everyone for your replays.

Steve

Trojan batteries are most popular in Marine applications as you don't want to be let down in the middle of the Atlantic with a duff battery - or so they tell me.

They are also more likely to be found in sissor lifts and cherry pickers, etc.

Americans choose them in off grid installations charged by solar panels.

Did they tell you how heavy they are?  If you take your battery out of the van to charge it, it's weight will do your back in. (Tanya haven't got weights on their site for Trojan batteries and nor have other sellers.)

https://www.tayna.co.uk/31XHS-Trojan-Battery-Deep-Cycle-P7325.html

EDIT.
Here we are
http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TRJN0111_ProdSpecGuide.pdf

A trojan battery weighs 30kgs as apposed to a similar Numax at 21.7kgs.

Personally I think that these are overkill for our industry but that's my opinion.

Our leisure batteries have lasted over 3 years in my van, 4 years and 5 years in the other 2 vans.

-

[Rayleigh Window Cleaning Services]

No they didn't mention the weight, it seems that everyone has there own idea of battery power set up, weather it's  leisure,  old scooter battery, normal car battery or working off the vehicle battery.
I suppose you just stick to what works for you.

[Pete Thompson]

I was given a replacement battery for £60, which he said was a pro rata  discount and good will as there was only one month left of guarantee

Totally irrelevant. 

It shouldn't matter if there's 1 month or 23 months of guarantee remaining.

If it's guaranteed for a certain amount of time, then that is 100% for the whole time.  Not guaranteed 100% in month 1 and 50% in month 12 and 10% in month 21 or whatever.

[Rayleigh Window Cleaning Services]

I agree Pete, but it started going down the road again with them saying it was not the correct battery in there opinion being used, hence the good will.

But i do know where your coming from.

 It was the whole conversation regarding it being "not the right battery" that made me feel like oh well at least i was getting something back and move on.

[duncan h]

I agree Pete, but it started going down the road again with them saying it was not the correct battery in there opinion being used, hence the good will.

But i do know where your coming from.

 It was the whole conversation regarding it being "not the right battery" that made me feel like oh well at least i was getting something back and move on.

But what is the right battery? A leisure battery! they are the same thing. Even more hammer with a caravan as they have tv on and everything else.
Every time we turn our van son, its getting topped up. Running batteries flat is what kills them. We don't run them flat.
AGM batteries are better but mega bucks. Remember, the more powerful the battery, the harder it is to charge.
Stick with your leisure battery. Just make sure its a good one

[Spruce]

I agree Pete, but it started going down the road again with them saying it was not the correct battery in there opinion being used, hence the good will.

But i do know where your coming from.

 It was the whole conversation regarding it being "not the right battery" that made me feel like oh well at least i was getting something back and move on.

But what is the right battery? A leisure battery! they are the same thing. Even more hammer with a caravan as they have tv on and everything else.
Every time we turn our van son, its getting topped up. Running batteries flat is what kills them. We don't run them flat.
AGM batteries are better but mega bucks. Remember, the more powerful the battery, the harder it is to charge.
Stick with your leisure battery. Just make sure its a good one

But most of the time they are being charged when the van is parked on site.  If the Battery manufacturers can find away of not actioning the warranty they will.

Many years ago in South Africa battery warranty was always on a prorata basis.  When you bought a battery you could choose what warranty you wanted. If you wanted a year then the battery was X amount. If you wanted a 2 year warranty it was Y amount and if you wanted a 3 year warranty it was Z amount. X was cheapest and Z was the most expensive. But it was the same battery.   So in effect, you were buying a form of insurance.

If you had a 2 year warranty battery fail in 18 months you could expect to pay 75% of the cost of a replacement. But you only got what was left on the warranty of the first battery on the replacement - 6 months.