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Poll

Eu in or out

In
20.9%
23 (20.9%)
Out
66.4%
73 (66.4%)
Undecided
12.7%
14 (12.7%)

Total Members Voted: 107

Voting closed: June 07, 2016, 07:43:57 pm

DB

  • Posts: 191
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2016, 08:17:04 pm »
Democracy...a bit of a joke really

Powerful figures are trying to bully the population to their way of thinking...
QUESTION ...I would love to ask them what's in it for them?....could I get a truly honest answer?

The ordinary people  torn between IN or OUT are being lied to ...
Many people are intending to vote influenced by what it means to them personally

I try  to take the long term view of how our Country will be in ten, twenty, fifty years time

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2016, 10:01:26 am »
The upcoming EU referendum isn't a vote about the future of our relationship with Europe, but is a vote about the future of Great Britain.
The EU is the most undemocratic, supposedly democratic institution on the planet and I feel it is important for the younger generations to understand this point.
Back in 1975 when I was the same age as my children who are all in their twenties, a referendum was held and the question posed was, did we want to join the Common Market?
The Common Market was nothing more than a trading block where member countries could trade freely with each other without import or export duties – that was it. So we voted yes, why wouldn't we?
Little did we know that that was only the first step towards a grand European project that if allowed to reach its ultimate conclusion will end up with us all of the populations of the  member countries becoming citizens of The United States of Europe with one central government in Strasbourg.
So you have to ask yourself the question, how did we go from one vote to join a common market to the European Union that we have today? Did we vote for any of those changes, changes that have fundamentally changed what it is to be British? No we did not!!
And if we supposedly live in a democracy, how on earth can the common market have become the European Union, with all of instruments of a state, a parliament, a central bank, a currency,  (though thankfully we aren't in the Euro)  a judiciary and entwined into this grand project the notion of free movement of people  – when did we vote for that?
The fact is, we didn't, nor we were we supposed to because if the implications of any one of those changes had been put to us we would have said, no. So it has all been done through treaty changes agreed and signed off on by heads of government, completely bypassing the democratic process.
At the very least, fifty percent of the new laws that apply in Britain are made in Europe, subjugating the British Parliament to the will of our European masters - masters  we couldn't even name. Do you know the name of your MEP? I thought not, neither do I!

If we don't like our current government then we, the people, have the right to vote them out of power. How on earth do we have the right to do the same in Europe, the answer is, we don't, which begs the question, how on earth can it be said that we live in a democratic country when the power of our parliament and the power of the people who elect it is systematically being taken from us and the EU takes more and more powers away from us?

So to the youngsters of today. I know you have lived your entire life in the European Union and so know nothing else and yet now you are being asked to decide whether to remain or leave and that must be a quite daunting prospect for you. Indeed the question before you is far more all encompassing than the simple question put before my generation, so I will ask you this. If in the forty years since the last referendum all of the fundamental changes listed above and many, many more have come to pass outside of the democratic process, then what in the next forty years will the European Union of 2056 look like? By then there will be many more changes, none of which will be the result of the democratic process and you will be sitting there wishing you had never voted to remain, I guarantee you that.

So this isn't a vote about Europe, whether we should remain in the EU or not, it is a vote about Britain’s future. A country that has existed for thousands of years, a country steeped in history, a country who's parliamentary and judicial systems are the model for almost every democratic country in the world. This is the greatest nation on the planet and millions of British men and woman fought and died in two world wars so that we might be free, free from European rule and yet here we are in 2016 on the very cusp of giving away the  very thing they thought they were saving us from, so that we might live as a free and independent nation, is that really how we honour them, to have betrayed them? I sincerely hope not.

So if, do we want to join the common market was the question before us in 1975 and since  then so many powers have been systematically  stripped of us, by stealth and slight of hand, as a consequence of that vote, then you can rest assured if you vote remain, you won't just be voting to remain in the EU but unwittingly giving the green light to ever more fundamental changes to what it means to be British. Britain, for the first time in its long history being ruled from abroad? Put a cross in the remain box and that is what you will get.

For me this is a vote about patriotism and just like the millions of British soldiers who took up arms to defend our nation, you too have a mighty sword in your hand on June 23rd, not a weapon of war, but a weapon of choice and you get the opportunity to decide the fate of this great nation, so lets take it back into our own hands, meet the problems head on and face the future together a free and independent nation.

Vote for Britain – vote LEAVE!!!

Simon

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2016, 12:58:23 pm »
well said Boris oops Simon..

Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

DB

  • Posts: 191
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2016, 03:01:40 pm »
Simon

You will never be a politician...you are telling the truth  ::)roll

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2016, 04:33:14 pm »
  ;D :D
Thankfully, I don't want to be someone who  thinks that skewing  the issues to suit their own agenda is an honourable thing. They want us to vote, remain because they want to scare us into  believing  that the world will come to an end unless we vote for what they want.
The nightmare isn't leaving, it is remaining to be served up yet more change. If we leave will there be problems in the short term, yes, probably, but what will happen is  that we won't just be living  in Britain, we will once again be living in Great Britain and that is worth any short term problems we encounter.


Simon

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2016, 05:23:33 pm »
For some reason...Land of hope and glory was playing in my mind whilst reading that...

 ;D
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

wayne zabel

  • Posts: 1082
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2016, 07:58:14 pm »
I think Simon's post has made my mind up once and for all.Very well written

maxcampbell

  • Posts: 256
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2016, 08:32:05 pm »
The greatest freedom we can have is the freedom to live and work wherever we want. The EU goes quite a long way towards that - we can retire to Spain, or start a business in France. No-one can stop us going anywhere within the EU.

It would be nice to have that freedom extended across the world, but that will be in the future.

It's a narrow-minded retrograde step to restrict that freedom for ourselves, and for other people, by leaving the EU.

We don't stop people from Northumberland living in London - although a thousand years ago we would have done, because they would have been in different kingdoms. The world will inevitably get closer over time. Voting to leave the EU is like building a sandcastle to keep the tide out.

Hilton

  • Posts: 5572
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2016, 08:40:40 pm »
So you would like to have free movement of people around the world....?

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2016, 09:47:36 pm »
Max,
That is not the point.
We did not vote for the free movement of people,  it, along with a myriad other things came in through treaty changes beyond  the democratic process.

Simon

maxcampbell

  • Posts: 256
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2016, 10:37:30 pm »
So you would like to have free movement of people around the world....?

Absolutely.

I don't see why anyone should have the right to stop anyone else living and working where they choose.

maxcampbell

  • Posts: 256
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2016, 10:38:38 pm »
Max,
That is not the point.
We did not vote for the free movement of people,  it, along with a myriad other things came in through treaty changes beyond  the democratic process.

Simon

Democracy is much overrated - most people are too stupid to be trusted with a vote.

Hilton

  • Posts: 5572
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2016, 10:45:46 pm »
So you would like to have free movement of people around the world....?

Absolutely.

I don't see why anyone should have the right to stop anyone else living and working where they choose.
Anyone ?

Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2016, 11:00:49 pm »
Max,
That is not the point.
We did not vote for the free movement of people,  it, along with a myriad other things came in through treaty changes beyond  the democratic process.

Simon

Democracy is much overrated - most people are too stupid to be trusted with a vote.

Wow. Hopefully your joking but if your not, WOW...

I for one DON'T want free movement of people. Does that make me a bad person?

I also understand that if I ever chose to live in another country I'd have to be vetted and show that I can bring some good to the country. That's the way it should be.

from edge2edge

  • Posts: 1507
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2016, 07:34:46 am »
Max if most people are too stupid to vote does that means thousands of soldiers who fight for our freedom cant vote because they arent Eton educated?.................can anyone tell me if the europeans can ever  force us to drive on the right?...............Alan

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2016, 08:18:54 am »
I think Simon's post has made my mind up once and for all.Very well written

So you have your mind made up by a c/c   my god  ,  now I do wonder what state this country could be in if every body was taken in like you!!  , because somebody else could just as easy could spout out so called facts and figures to stay in.

So when finaly we all have voted and we are still in the EU , will all of the doom and gloom  moaners be moving else where?

Geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Hilton

  • Posts: 5572
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2016, 08:37:16 am »
90% of the doom and gloom has come from the remain side, a daily flood of famine and pestilence as with today's rubbish about junior schools better off with pupils from the EU......seriously do people actually fall for this propaganda

David Ware

  • Posts: 300
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2016, 09:57:27 am »
Top post Simon well done, out out out
David

wayne zabel

  • Posts: 1082
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2016, 11:08:37 am »
I think Simon's post has made my mind up once and for all.Very well written

So you have your mind made up by a c/c   my god  ,  now I do wonder what state this country could be in if every body was taken in like you!!  , because somebody else could just as easy could spout out so called facts and figures to stay in.
So when finaly we all have voted and we are still in the EU , will all of the doom and gloom  moaners be moving else where?
Yes I have my mind made up by a CC - rather that than a corrupt lying politician

Geoff

wayne zabel

  • Posts: 1082
Re: Eu in or out
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2016, 11:10:41 am »
I don't know what happened to my above reply but yes I think I'd rather have my mind made up by a Cc than a lying politician