[Paul Moss]

I'm voting out

[David Ware]

Out for me.
 Its a bit like do you want to be self employed and have a control over your future, or do you want to be employed and how ever hard you work you get the same as everyone who does half the work
David

[davep]

In or Out of EU?
Really?
Well...
It's another divide and conquer tactic that we fall for time and time again.
It's one big joke that's on us.
Sure, many of us are a bit safer in work though changes in H&S laws but at the same time many of us are now working long hours on zero hour contracts in unstable jobs to make ends meet.
The nationalists are having a field day and bearing their teeth after the likes of Griffin and Farange have pushed their agendas into public consciousness but we surely can't equate a leave vote with being an immigrant hating nazi.
When I was a kid the Tories took the UK into the common market and the left led by the trade unions stood against it. Now the Tories are split down the middle and most of the unions are saying stay.
Corbyn was once an advocate of leaving, now he's saying stay.
No ones got a clue.

Why don't they just ask the more truthful question..

"Which bureaucratic fascist entity would you prefer to fatten up while they rob you of your jobs, your healthcare, your pensions and your children's future in the most undemocratic, threatening and coercive manner possible for the foreseeable future whilst they continue to give all your money to their masters, let people beg for food handouts, shut down all your local services, turn your environment to dust and kill thousands of innocent people in far away lands?"

It's hard to choose ain't it?

[elliott cleaning]

With all due respect,  Judging by your post, you misunderstand the term 'fascism'

[Stoots]

Im in.

Travel & holiday reasons

[derikraven]

Lets face FACTS. If we vote to come out of Europe house prices will tumble, rents will skyrocket, we will be plunged into recession, the national health service will crumble , America will turn its back on us , we will be invaded by Russia and world war 3 will break out. I know these facts to be true........David Cameron told me so!

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I wondered if I bend my knees and stretch my arms out it would help me make my decision?

[Hilton]

I think you are being unkind, I want to stay in because I go on holiday to Spain once a year, not sure why this should matter but some do so ,so do I.......oh and Tony Blair said yesterday that we should and I trust his judgement.

[Ian Harper]

Did you know that the The European Commission is the executive of the European Union and is not elected. its like the house of lords telling parliament what to do. our lords are there to add and balance any laws out. This is like USA where they pick judges. the law should be apart from politics.

more than economics its our freedom thats important. The European court of justice is a joke.

Just like USA capitalism is different to Europe so The UK is from Europe. 

WE went in for good reason a "Common Market" not what we are heading for

The movement of people in one thing but what the unions in the UK fear is when they are employed in a European county and paid a wage from that country but work in UK. its already happened at a oil refinery in UK. its not the workers thats the issue its the company that use the laws to their advantage just like they do with tax .

[John Kelly]

I am out mainly because the EU is anti democratic. But looking at who's backing the stay campaign, big business and merchant banks like J P Morgan makes me think I'm making the right choice.

[Lee Jenkins]

The whole stuff about 'control of our future' strikes me as nuts.

First off, if we wanted to 'control our future', we could anyway. You seen the huge numbers of tramps suddenly appearing in our cities the last 5 years? We could stop that tomorrow if we wanted to. We've got the fattest kids in Europe, and we could stop that. But so much for our 'control'. We should have implemented 'count them in, count them out' passport checks 15 years ago (perfectly legal under EU law) but we've never bothered. We don't even enforce the immigration rules we already have. The idea that stropping off from the EU is going to change that seems naive. The idea that we don't control the important things is wrong - we do, we just choose to do f**k all about them.

And what about that control? If you wanna do free trade with Europe, you gotta accept free movement - just like Norway, just like Switzerland. No choice. But Norway and Switzerland don't get a say in running the rules they have to live by. That's LESS control, not more. And if we pull out of the European arrest warrant (which we will), all the paedos, terrorists and fraudsters will be laughing - as they used to - on the Costas. So... not so much control, really. How are we going to force the mobile phone giants to keep roaming charges low with the new control from OUTside the EU? How we going to keep the hundreds of thousands of pensioners living in the EU free healthcare from OUTside the EU? Leaving gives us LESS control.

And what's the point of all this fantasy 'control our future' if it runs the economy down? The Institute for Fiscal Studies (the most respected experts on the economy in the country) tells us it will make us poorer than ALL the money we give to the EU, and the Brexiteers say they're part of a conspiracy and we should be 'free'. The International Monetary Fund tells us it will reduce investment, and the Brexiteers say they they're part of a conspiracy. President Obama tells us, in person, out loud, to our faces, that the US will not negotiate free trade with us for years, and the Brexiteers tell him and us that he doesn't know what he's  talking about. BMW tells its workers that it will invest less in this country, and the Brexiteers tell them they're blackmailing the work force.

I know the EU does some stupid things. But it does some good too. And if we're going to tackle the stupid things, stropping off and shouting 'Freedom!' while we accuse everyone else of conspiracy, invent fantasy futures, and ignore the realities of how the EU and the US have said they will treat us if we leave.

[Hilton]

I'm tempted, but I won't

[Paul Moss]

PMSL , this is just like our voting  or should I say people that can't get off there arse and vote. Get off the fence you lame ducks.  242 visits and 11 posts.
No wonder the country is in poop.

[tim handley]

im out...................  im sure we can do much better without interference from the eurocrats!

[JandS]

Out

Just read this on another forum. It's brilliant.

A response to the below leaflet

What Experts are Saying

The first thing to understand about experts is that historically on the questions of the ERM and the Euro they all got it absolutely wrong. The second point I would make is that often they are supporting their own self interest. Just one example. Big business represented by the CBI like the EU because with their counterparts in the EU they can write the rules of the market which often run counter to the interests of small and medium businesses. It is from the latter that growth in the economy really comes.

The sayings of the "Experts " are largely conjecture, none of it backed up with hard fact. They could just as easily say that the moon is made of green cheese. None of them in this document have come back with a piece of it.

Martin Lewis
On what basis does he suggest we will have less to spend. It is as fatuous as suggesting that we will have more to spend. He does not know.

Francis O'Grady
He may have concerns for workers rights, but I have heard no one suggesting that on leaving that workers will be stripped of any rights. The right that workers and the electorate do not have in the EU is that of changing the EU via an election. The EU is not answerable to any electorate.

Richard Branson
He makes a bland statement and fails to back it up. On past record, Branson is only interested in what is good for Branson.

Cathy Warwick
She fails to explain why staying in the EU is best for women and midwives.

Karen Brady
She should know that UK business will create jobs if it is successful, irrespective of where it trades. UK trade outside the EU is in surplus and growing. Inside the EU it is in deficit and shrinking.

Mark Carney
He is talking rubbish to satisfy his master at the Treasury, one George Osborne. If anywhere is becoming financially unstable it is the EU and the Euro zone. It is a shrinking entity in terms of World trade and likewise as a customer of the UK. Of the £19 Billion the UK pays to the EU each year around £9 billion comes back to the UK as either rebate or handouts to UK organisations of the EU's choosing. The CBI, Universities, BBC, Farmers and anywhere else it can buy influence. The EU costs us a net £10 Billion per annum.

Important Information

Jobs.

While 3 Million jobs may be linked to trade with the EU, no responsible person is suggesting that they will end if we leave. The EU sells us £60 Billion per annum more than we sell them. Does anyone honestly think that they would wish to jeopardise this by putting barriers in the way of our trade with them.

Family Finances

The £4300 is a worst scenario drop in GDP amortised over the number of households in the UK, dressed up to look as if it will cost each family £4300. At best it is a finger in the wind worst scenario, dreamt up by the Treasury on behalf of George Osborne to scare the electorate into voting remain. Incidentally the Treasury have an abysmal record at forecasting anything. Just look at the way their predictions have changed over the last nine months. For them to look forward for ten years or more and predict is utterly ridiculous.

Businesses.

Who has suggested that 200,000 businesses currently trading with the EU will cease trading on us leaving the EU. Incidentally HMRC cannot run their own business never mind make judgements about the fortunes of real businesses.

Prices.

When we buy agricultural products from the EU it costs us a fortune relative to World prices. We contribute to the CAP, the EU blocks the import of cheaper food to protect it's own inefficient farming industry. CAP is also financing various corrupt practices which is why the EU court of auditors has never signed off EU accounts for twenty years. By being outside the EU we could support our own dairy farmers if it was considered strategically sensible, using some of the £19 billion we would no longer be paying to the EU. We could also buy in the World market place and save a fortune in food imports while helping developing countries to survive.

Public Services.

There is every chance that leaving the EU and being free to trade with the rest of the World would boost the UK economy. If we spent the £9 Billion of our money that the EU spends in the UK plus the additional £10 Billion we pay that disappears into the EU coffers, then our public services and infrastructure could benefit enormously. This is another Treasury scare story from George Osborne.

This pamphlet is pure propaganda designed to frighten the electorate into staying in the EU.

[John Kelly]

Good post John. Everyone goes on about Norway and Sweden, what about Turkey, they pay not a penny and their goods are everywhere, Beko, Hatsan Guns , agricultural equipment etc.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/turkey/

They have all the bonny marbles, exporting to the EU and the rest of the world.

[gwrightson]

I suggest all of you people voting to quit has a flutter, according to ciu poll  36 are saying out with 12 staying in, but of course we all know that majority of those saying leave wont vote.
......... and the latest odds are 1/6 to stay  with a whopping 4 /1 to leave  .
Think I will have a few quid on staying.

Geoff

[JandS]

That's probably because it's already been decided...we will stop whether it gets voted out or not.
Look what happened in Ireland.......

[gwrightson]

That's probably because it's already been decided...we will stop whether it gets voted out or not.
Look what happened in Ireland.......

So not much point in me voting then !!!!

Think I will just up my stake if that statement is a fact.

Geoff

[elliott cleaning]

........ what about Turkey, they pay not a penny and their goods are everywhere, Beko, Hatsan Guns , agricultural equipment etc.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/turkey/

They have all the bonny marbles, exporting to the EU and the rest of the world.

Good point John - but average monthly wages in Turkey over the last few years £584 . In contrast average monthly wages over the same time span in the UK £2330 .  No wonder that people buy the goods from Turkey.  Opting out of the EU is not going to change that - or you raise import duties on those kind of household essential items and inflation goes through the roof causing interest rates to soar and all those carpet cleaners with a mortgage could end up homeless 

The choice in 4 weeks time is yours  guys - I 'm not allowed to vote.