[Crystal-clear]

i managed to connect the stop connector (yet to clip over) but it seems like the 8mm hose is working but both 6mm dont work (unless they are short) the battery isnt the problem on 8mm it goes like Niagara falls

[Spruce]

From the video you posted, I believe the 'pressure' calibration in the controller is causing the pulsing. Even if it is set as high as it will go you will still have pulsing.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you discovered you got the same result if you totally bypassed the controller. The pumps pressure switch would cut out and cut back in again - pulsing.

A pump delivering water through 6mm microbore bore hose can only pump so much water. If the water was hot you would get more though. The very fact that 8mm works is exactly what that poster was complaining about on the other forum. He couldn't understand why he could work at full flow using minibore but couldn't using microbore. The answer is that 6mm microbore is half the size of 8mm and can only handle a limited amount of water.

[Crystal-clear]

Hi spruce

But why has it worked with mini bore for ages and all of a sudden it doesn't like it

You are saying it's the switch controller but I'll likley have the pump pulsing anyway?
I'm about to properly connect the  8m soon I'm guessing it will work
But this is all very wierd

[Spruce]

Hi spruce

But why has it worked with mini bore for ages and all of a sudden it doesn't like it

You are saying it's the switch controller but I'll likley have the pump pulsing anyway?
I'm about to properly connect the  8m soon I'm guessing it will work
But this is all very wierd

I'm sure you can manually calibrate those controllers but I don't know how. If you know (instruction manual) then try raising the calibration from 65 to 75 and see what happens.

We use Varistreams and we generally reduce the calibration in the summer when the water is warmer and increase it in the winter when the water gets colder.

I thought you were having the pulsng issue when going from minibore to microbore. Sorry for misunderstanding.

[Ian Sheppard]

Thank you for the video as they say a picture paints a 1000 words.

My first impression is the controller and pump are operating as I would expect. You have a calibration setting of 65 which is fine and within the ranges I would expect.
When the flow is tuned up to 99 the pump is working pretty close to maximum and creating a lot of pressure, Add in the restriction created by your hose line, Reel valve, connectors and the brush head Jets, and pressure builds up very fast. This fast pressure build up means the pump pressure switch is cutting in and stopping the pump, The controller is correctly reporting the Pump PS has operated.

Turning the flow down reduces the pressure in the system and the pump operates normally.

As Spruce has commented when calibration is set what we are doing is telling the controller the usual current draw and pressure the pump operates in open flow.
Now when flow is stopped the pump will try to overcome the restriction and in turn both [pressure and current increase. It is this change over and above the usual open flow draw the controllers see,s and dependant on the cal setting the control will DE the pump within 1/2 to a couple seconds.  (The higher the calibration setting the slower the control will DE the pump)

High calibration combined with a high flow rate (in this case 99) means that pressure builds up very fast  and because of the higher cal setting rather than the controller dead ending the pump it is the pump PS that is stopping flow.

The cycling of flow is being caused by the pressure switch opening and closing. Pressure builds and the pump stops. Pressure drops below the PS threshold and flow restarts. Because of the pressure dynamics of the hose line flow does not stop completely but cycles as you see in the video. In effect the hose is expanding and contracting to give the spurts of water.

It is worth mentioning that a 6mm ID hose will create more of a restriction than a 8mm ID hose. In effect the water has less space to flow in. As such a 6mm ID hose will create higher back pressure than a 8mm ID. With the pump running close to maximum it is trying to push 5 LPM of water through the hose. The hose itself will allow some of the water to flow BUT once the hose reaches its maximum expansion it will actually reduce how much water can flow. This means some of the water is pushed back towards the pump   (back pressure ) A point can be reached where the back pressure is equal to the flow toward the brush and flow will stop Or as in your case the pump pressure switch activates.

To give efficient flow a balance is being sort between the water the pump is pushing into the hose and the natural restrictions of the hose. Every system is slightly different and changing a component (Hose ID) will have an impact on this balance

What this means for your system is a flow rate up to 60 - 65 and calibration of 65 is about right and this will give you around 1.5 LPM to 2 LPM at the brush.

In Conclusion
Turning the flow rate to 99 actually reduces the LPM rate significantly because of the back pressure the system creates.

Increasing the ID of the jets and using 8mm will reduce back pressure and give higher flow rate through the system . An upshot of reduced back pressure is both Calibration and flow rates will be lower for the same/higher flow.  Be aware though that due to the pressure dynamics you will never get 5 LPM at the brush. 

[Don Kee]

Have you tried 'auto calibrating' on that controller rather than just setting your own, to see if that helps?

Turn your flow to 99 if thats your chosen flow rate
Press and hold the far left and far right buttons at the same time until 'cal' shows up
Scroll all the way down until you see 'aut'
Press enter (far right button)
Wait and see what number it settles on (takes 20seconds or so)
Press enter again
Do all that with water running at chosen flow rate, pole extended a bit and a bit of pole hose unreeled


Sorry if i'm telling you to try something you already have!!

Spruce, thats one heck of an explanation on flow & pressure!!! Alot went totally past me though if i'm honest!!!

[Spruce]

Have you tried 'auto calibrating' on that controller rather than just setting your own, to see if that helps?

Turn your flow to 99 if thats your chosen flow rate
Press and hold the far left and far right buttons at the same time until 'cal' shows up
Scroll all the way down until you see 'aut'
Press enter (far right button)
Wait and see what number it settles on (takes 20seconds or so)
Press enter again
Do all that with water running at chosen flow rate, pole extended a bit and a bit of pole hose unreeled


Sorry if i'm telling you to try something you already have!!

Spruce, thats one heck of an explanation on flow & pressure!!! Alot went totally past me though if i'm honest!!!

Hi Don,

He has auto calibrated it already. Ian is pointing out that Crystal-clear is asking more from the system than it can deliver using 6mm hose. The calibration must be working correctly as the pump's mechanical pressure switch is kicking in.

(It also could mean to me that the pumps mechanical screw adjuster has been altered and so the pressure switch is cutting in at a lower pressure than factory set - 100psi. The first Shurflo pump  we had was a 65psi pump and that was good enough for 1/2" hose and 3 mm jets. But Ian has said the 65 calibration setting is right, so everything regarding pump and controller is fine.)

The relationship between pressure and flow is difficult for some people to understand. And that's OK because there is other stuff they find easy to understand that baffles me. 

Selling air compressors and air tools was never easy as customers usually had no grasp of the difference between air pressure and volume (CFM). So part of the sell was to explain the difference so they clearly understood it. But we often experienced a customer buy from a competitor because the small compressor he bought  translated into a cheaper price and lower financial outlay. They soon realised their mistake.

[Spruce]

Hi spruce

But why has it worked with mini bore for ages and all of a sudden it doesn't like it

You are saying it's the switch controller but I'll likley have the pump pulsing anyway?
I'm about to properly connect the  8m soon I'm guessing it will work
But this is all very wierd

It would be interesting for you to connect your 6mm microbore hose reel up to the garden tap and see what the free flow of water is at the end of the hose reel. Then do the same with the 8mm.

You will find the water hardly dribbles out of the 6mm and is slightly better with the 8mm.  If you had 100m of 1/2" the water flow would be much better.
This is a telling experiement as the tap pressure remains constant and there will be no pulsing of water.


Why has it worked before and now it doesn't? Something must have changed.

As has been said before, unreel the hose completely and then see if this changes the situation. I fitting new hose to my reel and I had no end of trouble with it.  It would expand under pressure but would eventually become loose on the drum. Winding the hose back on the reel caused the hose to kink and restricted the flow.

Someone else experienced a damaged section which twisted and reduced the flow.

We also experienced a faulty Hoselok stop connector. It suddenly created grief about 6 months after fitting. It gave the same symptoms as a flat leisure battery, but running the van's engine didn't help the flow. So I presumed the split charge relay wasn't working. I drove home and it took an hour before I isolated the problem.

8mm hose is generally problem free for flows of around 2 LPM or fractionally more. If water isn't getting through then there is an obstruction somewhere between the pump and the brush jets.

[Crystal-clear]

Some very technical responces

Updating Well I found an old 8m hose after I put on the stop connector it starting doing the same stop start problem I was devastated , then I went to CAL 60 and it's been working fine but I'm keeping it at this setting as I'm scared to change anything In case it stops starts again
In simple terms is there anything wrong with the pump?
Remember it's been working fine for ages on that hose

[Rob clarke]

Are your hoselock connections on reel good as I found when they wear they cause pressure and flow problems, new connections click in better where as a worn one will push out a bit hense causing problems, hope that makes sense lol