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Dave Willis

Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2016, 09:00:29 pm »
Malcum - a French term I believe?

capn sparkle

  • Posts: 567
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2016, 09:10:43 pm »
Could you elaborate please.
We can have a tug of war on this topic. But the only way that you non forward window cleaners need to do is try it. As Mawlam said "proof is in the pudding"

Quotes - "Let them eat cake" By a French Queen and we all know how that ended! Probably numptyised from "Let them eat bread".

As the Pope didn't say "We can have a tug of war on this chocolate bar", or PPB which my Papal TDS meter can't read.

capn sparkle

  • Posts: 567
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2016, 10:29:09 pm »
Malcum - a French term I believe?

Apparently. I suppose Malcum is to Malcom as Willies is to Willis?  ;)


Would have save precious minutes of my life if I'd bothered to read your previous comments! Bugger

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2016, 10:49:42 pm »
There are different levels of pure water which we use. We refer to is as pure water, but its also referred to as ultra pure water and im sure most on here if not all on here know that ultra pure water is used in various ways, ours is to clean windows and not have to dry them because they dry clear as far as our eye sight is concerned. However dig a little deeper and its more than that. Also dependant upon its usuage their are different clarities of ultra pure water. Why does water clean so well and break down dirt and deposits on the window?? Why does hot water disolve more dirt easily??  Yes at end of day, simply because it does is good enough reason for most to just use it! However dig a little deeper and understand why, such as it being extremely hypotonic for instance.
I looked into it a short while ago, for the reason of the strength of this stuff that we splash around and could it do damage to the seals etc. It was educational, but alot of information to take in as regards to my reason why. Concluded that guys have been doing for a while and no legal cases or causes been brought forward.
On those points I would assume that total parts per billion have a faster, more aggressive dissolvent rate than that of parts per million.  However does that translate to an increased clean time per window for the actual length of time we spend per window. I wouldnt have thought so, to the extreme thats mention on this thread. But then I dont use ppm and so could be completely wrong and be interested to see it at work

The thing is Nathan its only going to be somebodies opinion, some think hot cleans better others don't, some think adding a
small amount of a cleaning solution to your water improves it others don't.
I see the exact same as NWH when I change my resin it seems to clean better and quicker but I honestly couldn't tell if its
down to me looking more closely at the clean and seeing things that I wouldn't be looking for if the resin was older.
The mistake your making is thinking that we clean the dirt of the glass by dissolving it in water, that's not the case we loosen the
dirt and use the water to rinse/push it off the glass dissolving it has very little to do with the process.
Fill a bucket with pure throw in a pile of dirt stir it and let it sit, you will find that most of it will sink to the bottom and never
get dissolved, it will only be certain things within that dirt such as salts that will become dissolved solids and raise the tds.
Honestly I couldn't care if people think I'm mad because I say I can see the change after fresh resin it has been puzzling me for a while and the water is definitely reacting differently to before,at 001 against 000 fresh resin for at least the first week or so I personally can tell.

rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2016, 01:41:32 am »
Perhaps, maybe, fresh resin means the water is a one part, or there abouts, per billion?

After all, ion exchange resin removes all impurities and the fresher the resin, the more impurities it removes. A tds meter only measures down to 000 parts per million but it could be way below that. Resin after being opened can pick up moisture and contaminants from the from the air.

Leave a bag of resin open for too long and it's useless as it's all spent, so to speak, and I'm not defending Ionics and their money spinning ideas at all.
Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.

8weekly

Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2016, 03:48:50 am »
Malcum - a French term I believe?

Apparently. I suppose Malcum is to Malcom as Willies is to Willis?  ;)
My middle name is Malcolm. I was always teased for this whenever I needed to reveal it at school with "'course you can Malcom". I hated it and whenever asked what the M stood for in my initials I would say Michael.  :-[

Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2016, 06:55:40 am »
Nwh

I've got some magic beans for sale if you want some.

SeanK

Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2016, 07:32:05 am »
Perhaps, maybe, fresh resin means the water is a one part, or there abouts, per billion?

After all, ion exchange resin removes all impurities and the fresher the resin, the more impurities it removes. A tds meter only measures down to 000 parts per million but it could be way below that. Resin after being opened can pick up moisture and contaminants from the from the air.

Leave a bag of resin open for too long and it's useless as it's all spent, so to speak, and I'm not defending Ionics and their money spinning ideas at all.

My RO takes my tap water down to 4ppm into the tank I then put it through the resin on demand, so you would think with
new resin my tds must be well under the zero parts per million.
Like NWH I do notice a difference for the first few days or so, the water does seem to clean better and easier especially stubborn
things like bird muck pollen spots and so on, even the look of it is difference as mad as that sounds.
The thing is unlike the guys who have bought the ppb machines and expect better results I have never been told that new resin does any of the above so why have I noticed this ?
On the other side of the debate, my resin doesn't go up above zero for about 10 months or more so why I'm I only seeing this improvement for a few days or so ?
Plus like I said earlier we don't clean windows by absorbing the dirt on the glass into the empty water so the emptier the
water is shouldn't make a difference if that makes sense.
Personally when I weigh up the pros and cons the evidence does seem to point that its all in my head.


tony day

  • Posts: 183
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2016, 12:24:38 pm »
In every trade there comes a crossover or a game changer. Today i cleaned a 18th century Georgian mansion (once a year job) with zero parts per billion. Like most i was very sceptical about the whole concept. And today it put my doubts to bed. It knocked an hour off the job. Not just time ,but speed,effortless, and the standard is top class. Seriously guys it's another grade. Imagine if i was using hot water at zero parts per billion.....! I could retire next year!  :o

😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂
People laughed at the idea with a window cleaner with a pole. (I was one) then hot water got slated, now we have 0ppb and now that's being slated. There is a pattern here. Oh yeah, ignorance!

Tosh

  • Posts: 2964
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2016, 12:29:05 pm »
Did the Georgian mansion have sash windows?
*A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE - THE SHORT STORY* 'Hydrogen is a light, odorless gas, which, given enough time, turns into people.'

tony day

  • Posts: 183
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2016, 01:01:46 pm »
Did the Georgian mansion have sash windows?
Yes. For the last 5 years with 0ppm they have been a nightmare! We always go back round with ladders spot checking. On Thursday we didn't have to. As i said it knocked an hour off the job. I don't appreciate people who haven't tried and tested the difference think that i can't possibly notice the difference. It gives you that little bit extra. And on repeat work it's so quick. And it's not that difficult,or expensive to make at home.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8465
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2016, 01:59:57 pm »
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Tosh

  • Posts: 2964
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2016, 02:09:26 pm »
Did the Georgian mansion have sash windows?
Yes. For the last 5 years with 0ppm they have been a nightmare! We always go back round with ladders spot checking. On Thursday we didn't have to. As i said it knocked an hour off the job. I don't appreciate people who haven't tried and tested the difference think that i can't possibly notice the difference. It gives you that little bit extra. And on repeat work it's so quick. And it's not that difficult,or expensive to make at home.

Id be interested to know how many windows the georgian place has Tony. I assume its a sizeable place if they only have it done once a year. If that's the case the frames will be full of spiders nests, that are a right royal pain in the arse to clear effectively and efficiently. If any job has an  hour knocked off it then by definition it has to be big. 000 PPB wont make any difference to cleaning out spiders nests whatsoever, I'd suggest then that you probably haven't done a particularly thorough job, or not done the frames, runners and under bar upper sash area; as you've described the job it would take a good long time to do from what you've revealed about it.
*A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE - THE SHORT STORY* 'Hydrogen is a light, odorless gas, which, given enough time, turns into people.'

tony day

  • Posts: 183
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2016, 04:11:05 pm »
Did the Georgian mansion have sash windows?
Yes. For the last 5 years with 0ppm they have been a nightmare! We always go back round with ladders spot checking. On Thursday we didn't have to. As i said it knocked an hour off the job. I don't appreciate people who haven't tried and tested the difference think that i can't possibly notice the difference. It gives you that little bit extra. And on repeat work it's so quick. And it's not that difficult,or expensive to make at home.

Id be interested to know how many windows the georgian place has Tony. I assume its a sizeable place if they only have it done once a year. If that's the case the frames will be full of spiders nests, that are a right royal pain in the arse to clear effectively and efficiently. If any job has an  hour knocked off it then by definition it has to be big. 000 PPB wont make any difference to cleaning out spiders nests whatsoever, I'd suggest then that you probably haven't done a particularly thorough job, or not done the frames, runners and under bar upper sash area; as you've described the job it would take a good long time to do from what you've revealed about it.
Are you suggesting that i'm incompetent? All frames are compulsory on every job. We cleaned inside and outside on that job. And not once did we get the ladder out to spot check. Sash windows are a headache with a WFP. (As we all know). It's quick and effective,two practical things i like. After trying many things in this trade over 15 years,i think i'm more than competent to establish what works well and what doesn't.

Tosh

  • Posts: 2964
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2016, 07:08:23 pm »
Sash windows are a headache with a WFP.

No they're not if you work in a particular way.

Im not suggesting you're incompetent, Im suggesting you're talking crap.

Maybe it's to justify spending all that excess dosh on a system that has no noticeable difference compared to the run of the mill system that produces excellent results if you know what you're doing.
*A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE - THE SHORT STORY* 'Hydrogen is a light, odorless gas, which, given enough time, turns into people.'

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2016, 07:10:08 pm »
Nwh

I've got some magic beans for sale if you want some.
Ive got some magic beans for you too just open wide and give me a few minutes.  👅👅👅🍼🍼🍼

8weekly

Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2016, 07:40:26 pm »
Sash windows are a headache with a WFP.

No they're not if you work in a particular way.

Im not suggesting you're incompetent, Im suggesting you're talking crap.

Maybe it's to justify spending all that excess dosh on a system that has no noticeable difference compared to the run of the mill system that produces excellent results if you know what you're doing.
Except when they've not been cleaned for years and need painting, but 0PPB ain't gonna help there.

Besides, 1sn't the thread a wind up?

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2016, 08:05:31 pm »
Thing is I would only want a delivery  system I wouldnt want all those filters in the van been there done that,to much money although I'd like to have a go with PPB I got the brochure this morning as well.

tony day

  • Posts: 183
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2016, 09:56:49 pm »
Sash windows are a headache with a WFP.

No they're not if you work in a particular way.

Im not suggesting you're incompetent, Im suggesting you're talking crap.

Maybe it's to justify spending all that excess dosh on a system that has no noticeable difference compared to the run of the mill system that produces excellent results if you know what you're doing.
How am i talking crap? Have you used 0ppb? I've used 0ppm and 0ppb which put's me in a better position to have an opinion. And for your information,i didn't spend stupid money. It can be done at home. Not saying it's cheap,but a lot cheaper then Ionics!!

windowswashed

  • Posts: 2580
Re: The Crossover.
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2016, 01:30:07 am »
Regarding Ionics PPB, I got the brochure as well. They run DI after DI after DI to further polish the water.
Is bringing the PPM down to PPB by running the water through up to eight DI filters before hosereel or is the DI resin a higher grade of resin? Why the need to run DI water through up to eight DI containers if the resin is a higher quality? Does anyone know the answer as to what reduces the water from PPM to PPB? 
Fresh resin seems to clean better than old resin that remains at 0.00 TDS, can't explain why, perhaps some clever boffin has the answer on here?