[telfordwindowclnr]

For those of you who know who Jim Rohn, Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy and other people of that type are, being part of the 10% is an important part of what they teach. How does this apply to window cleaning?

After many threads read on here and writing a number myself, it seems the same people tend to post the same types of comments. So here is my theory:

It seems we all fall into different types of brackets:

1. Window Cleaners
2. Those who run window cleaning businesses
3. Businessmen whose current business happens to be window cleaning

What are the differences?

It seems window cleaners are obsessed about brush type, length of pole, getting a new 'custie' (I find that derogatory) etc. They also tend to post the most negative comments and are quick to pick fault, insult, have bad grammar and make spelling mistakes. I'd say they are about 20% of the makeup of the forum.

Then you have those who run window cleaning businesses, those who discuss what vehicles to buy, tax issues etc. They are more focused on making middle of the road comments on threads, weigh things up equally and are not offensive to virtually anyone in any way. They are probably 70% of the forum population.

Then there are those who are businessmen, whose current business is window cleaning. These tend to discuss expansion, accomplishments, market trends, new ideas etc. They run their business by principles that they could apply in other businesses and tend to have multiple revenue streams. These tend to be the most disliked and controversial people on here. Their posts may come across as big headed and filled with braggadocio, when actually they are pioneers, willing to be different and put their head above the parapet, knowing they may be shot down. They do it anyway, not to have their egos massaged, but to try and inspire others and show what can be accomplished. I think these are what make up the 10%.

All are needed, but not all are appreciated. We probably all know what category we fall into if we are honest and where we aspire to be.

I want to be part of the 10%. I want to find out the mindset of the masses and avoid it, read the books that the masses read and not read them. The masses do not attain success and live a fulfilling life, the masses are disgruntled with their lot in life. The 10% is the place to be.

[Dave Willis]

What's that got to do with leading a fulfilling life? Some have completely opposite priorities but have better lives. Some can't spell whilst others are better educated than you. As it's a window cleaning forum you would automatically expect windowcleaners to frequent it would you not? Maybe you re  on the wrong forum particularly as you seem to be the most disgruntled member on here?

[Jonny 87]

What's that got to do with leading a fulfilling life? Some have completely opposite priorities but have better lives.

Couldn't agree more.

Leading a full filling life doesn't mean having a successful business and loads of cash.

To some, work is the 10%. They spend the 10% working to pay there way and look after there families, and the 90% is spent with family or doing things they love. That's much more fulfilling I'd say than say someone who runs a big business, but is stuck in an office chair for 14 hours a day stressed out their box.

It's all a matter of perspective.

[telfordwindowclnr]

You are both of that opinion because you have presumed that I think living a fulfilling life is linked with your work. It is in a way because your work influences heavily your lifestyle. But work should never be the be all and end all. The seminars of the guys I mention in my OP speak as much about personal development as they do advancing your business.

They say that you should worker harder on yourself than you do on your business and I'm a bit advocate of that. The world would be and will be a better place if and when people do that.

[Dave Willis]

I cycle at the weekends with a group of chums, one is a proffesser, one is the MD of a large company he built himself, one runs a building company, one runs a double glazing company whilst the other is a sales rep. Out of them all I reckon I have the best life, probably the least income but the best life. After I've given them a good thrashing they look the same as me, sweat the same and swear the same - they are no different.


"Then there are those who are businessmen, whose current business is window cleaning. These tend to discuss expansion, accomplishments, market trends, new ideas etc. They run their business by principles that they could apply in other businesses and tend to have multiple revenue streams. These tend to be the most disliked and controversial people on here. Their posts may come across as big headed and filled with braggardocio, when actually they are pioneers, willing to be different and put their head above the parapet, knowing they may be shot down. They do it anyway, not to have their egos massaged, but to try and inspire others "

You said you actually want to be one of the above - I don't.

[Clever Forum Name]

[Rich Wilts]

I can see where this one is going already.

I suspect SS is feeling like he wants a bite at the cake after Vins accomplishment thread and all the attention it garnered. Maybe it's not so good thinking you're top of the tree and subsequently needing that ego caressed and massaged.

[Dave Willis]

I might add that some of the elite ten percent post on this forum but never get attacked. They know how to treat people and not to belittle them or brag. I think Alex Gardiner has to be the perfect example. I've been on here for eight years or more and I don't recall him ever upsetting anybody.
( you have my address Alex - leave the pole down the side if I'm  out  )

[Lee Pryor]

I can see where this one is going already.

Yep me to.

Steve its a good post but I really think its more like 70%, 25%, 5% which is why your about to be shot to bits.

I dont think Steve said anything about fulfillment in his post. Im sure that is different for everyone. How does anyone know if one person that works 14 hours a day or not is more or less fulfilled than the next person?

I know how this will sound but I would like to see either a new forum or a new section to the forum for those with the larger businesses just because topics of interest would be different. For example im not interested in the latest brush, pole ect.... Im more intested in the issues of a bigger business, which are a million miles from the day to day of a single opperator. I can say that with confidence as I have been a single opperator. A friend of mine with a 30 van courier business has given me a lot of advice over the last year which is helping me to grow right now. Its not about poles and brushes, its about, tax,vat,employment, marketing, accountants, dividends, premises, office staff, finance, so on and so on. It would be useful to have discusion like that on here but it seems if you want to be bigger or are bigger you get cut down. Funny how you dont get cut down asking about a new pole!

[Bungle]

Nearly 30 people attending the next solar fleece seminar. Is that nearly 30 or 26,27,28 or 29?

[sunshine windows]

. ( you have my address Alex - leave the pole down the side if I'm  out  ) 

Now that me me chuckle 

I'd say I'm say pretty much in the middle. The growth of my business was very steady over the first 2-3 years being on ladders. Invested in a wfp system in 2007, bought a 2nd van to employ a family friend in 2008. Deliberated about franchising for way too long because I didn't want to employ further and eventually franchised in 2015.

Growth is currently good although there has been nothing more than internet presence for the last 12 months and we've grown by 40%. If I had Vin's motivation I would have surpassed the £250k mark long ago.

We live comfortably, I'm very happy with family life but if truth be told I seriously lack motivation when it comes to me personally. I don't see myself as successful in business, as I could achieve so much more, but I'm content I suppose (or lazy).

[Dave Willis]

" The masses do not attain success and live a fulfilling life, the masses are disgruntled with their lot in life. The 10% is the place to be."

That was the fulfilment bit.
Like I said it's really a Windowcleaning forum rather than a business forum so what can you expect?

[deeege]

Good post Steve, I agree with all but the last paragraph. There are plenty on here that are happy being "just a window cleaner". You don't have to be in the 5 or 10 percent that you strive for to live a happy and fulfilling life.

[Ian101]

I know how this will sound but I would like to see either a new forum or a new section to the forum for those with the larger businesses just because topics of interest would be different.

its already happened on the pressure washer section (general cleaning) of this forum.

the full timer pressure washers got miffed off for lots of various reasons but mainly any advice they gave out was often belittled or argued with by people who didn't know as much as they made out so they all over a short period of time upped sticks and moved to a totally different area of the web where its very hard to get in and basically invite only  ... I think im one of a few window cleaners in there due to doing some massive jobs with another lad in there plus I also do pressure washing for myself.

IMHO that part of the forum now a quiet place and a loss to the forum.

Will it happen on the windows section -

[SeanK]

I know how this will sound but I would like to see either a new forum or a new section to the forum for those with the larger businesses just because topics of interest would be different.

its already happened on the pressure washer section (general cleaning) of this forum.

the full timer pressure washers got miffed off for lots of various reasons but mainly any advice they gave out was often belittled or argued with by people who didn't know as much as they made out so they all over a short period of time upped sticks and moved to a totally different area of the web where its very hard to get in and basically invite only  ... I think im one of a few window cleaners in there due to doing some massive jobs with another lad in there plus I also do pressure washing for myself.

IMHO that part of the forum now a quiet place and a loss to the forum.

Will it happen on the windows section -

Not a chance, if you cant take a bit of criticism then you have no place in window cleaning I don't know about others but
if I didn't have a thick skin I wouldn't have lasted 10mins in this game.
At the end of the day it would be a dull world if everybody agreed with you.

[Dave Willis]

It does, there's a fb site for Vision users who can discuss without getting attacked and several fb windowcleaning sites but most are not moderated so seem far worse than this one. If you're a fan of swearing, bragging and stupidity then there's a couple to choose from.

[Ian101]

I know how this will sound but I would like to see either a new forum or a new section to the forum for those with the larger businesses just because topics of interest would be different.

its already happened on the pressure washer section (general cleaning) of this forum.

the full timer pressure washers got miffed off for lots of various reasons but mainly any advice they gave out was often belittled or argued with by people who didn't know as much as they made out so they all over a short period of time upped sticks and moved to a totally different area of the web where its very hard to get in and basically invite only  ... I think im one of a few window cleaners in there due to doing some massive jobs with another lad in there plus I also do pressure washing for myself.

IMHO that part of the forum now a quiet place and a loss to the forum.

Will it happen on the windows section -

Not a chance, if you cant take a bit of criticism then you have no place in window cleaning I don't know about others but
if I didn't have a thick skin I wouldn't have lasted 10mins in this game.
At the end of the day it would be a dull world if everybody agreed with you.

I think you're wrong I disagree with you 

[Plankton]

Still got seats to fill Steve?

[nathankaye]

Interesting statements!
Firstly, ones have a banter on here. I have recently joined the forum and reading many of the threads and contributing to them. You can recognise ones who have a relationship with different ones on here. Relationship, as in actually knowing each other and so have jibes with one another. So it would be wrong to jump to the wrong conclusion that these are as first appearance seem negative.
Secondly, ones are not being negative but quite helpfull. If ones keep their dummies in long enough to realise. As one of the above threads mentioned.  Ones have opinions but limited knowledge and may be getting flustered. So some threads are direct and some (my own included) quite blunt. To stop/help ones not to be flustered/upset etc etc because of a wrong mind set.
Thirdly, as again pointed out by above posts, this is a window cleaning forum! So ones will ask about new poles, brushes and the like.  Maybe for advice, maybe new to the game and looking for advice from the more experienced.
Fourthly, talk of expansion, taxes, legalities etc etc is all very good and well. It has its place and ones who wish to discuss n share advice etc, its all very good and helpful. BUT, its funny how you feel that the ones who dont wish to aspire to allowing work to take over their lives, are uneducated in spelling or poor with grammer!! Or how many digs, sorry I mean sly attacks you have sneaked in with your manuscript of the elite 10%!
It reminds me of a tail, about a fisherman. Who worked solely to provide for his family and so only worked till he had enough for his needs. The rest of the time, he enjoyed family life. Then one day, a business entrepreneur approached him about how to make his business better n more fulfilling. He needed to work harder and longer, past his requirements. That way he would have more money. He could even save and buy extra boats and take on staff. By the end of many years to get to this point, you could be selling your product directly and earn better money. By another 5/10 yrs, you could be managing a whole fleet and guess what you can do then?!! Take time off work allowing others to do it all and guess what your reward for all those yrs of hard graft is....you can retire and spend time with your family!!
Yes im sure you get the point of the above illustration,  even the 90% simpletons who supposedly dont entertain the top10% idealisms. But I guess im one of those negative window cleaners......please I beg, correct my thinking

[Rich Wilts]

I can see where this one is going already.

Yep me to.

Steve its a good post but I really think its more like 70%, 25%, 5% which is why your about to be shot to bits.

I dont think Steve said anything about fulfillment in his post. Im sure that is different for everyone. How does anyone know if one person that works 14 hours a day or not is more or less fulfilled than the next person?

I know how this will sound but I would like to see either a new forum or a new section to the forum for those with the larger businesses just because topics of interest would be different. For example im not interested in the latest brush, pole ect.... Im more intested in the issues of a bigger business, which are a million miles from the day to day of a single opperator. I can say that with confidence as I have been a single opperator. A friend of mine with a 30 van courier business has given me a lot of advice over the last year which is helping me to grow right now. Its not about poles and brushes, its about, tax,vat,employment, marketing, accountants, dividends, premises, office staff, finance, so on and so on. It would be useful to have discusion like that on here but it seems if you want to be bigger or are bigger you get cut down. Funny how you dont get cut down asking about a new pole!

Just use a business forum.