[Richard Harwood]

Hi everyone
How do can you tell when a carpet is glued down or is fitted with grippers?
Cleaned a carpet the other day and to my horror had a phone call informing me that it had shrunk! it was only when i went back to investigate that realised it was glued down and had come away by half an inch from the wall. I cleaned it at 250psi with plenty of dry strokes and fan dried it after, just don't understand how it could of shrunk?

[scott johns]

what was carpet fibre ?

[Richard Harwood]

wool mix  hessian backed. I know now should of LM cleaned  but like i say without pulling the carpet up how do you know its glued down?

[scott johns]

ok first of all when you survey job do you just look and think yes I can do this? or do you check perimeter of
carpet and pull back and look this is what you should always do as it will tell you the backing which unfortunately in your case was hessian. which you have put too much moisture down and it has gone through to the backing and shrunk the carpet not many domestic  carpets are glued down get on a alltec course you will know the pitfalls then all the best

[Richard Harwood]

Been on numerous training courses  but unless i wasn't paying attention don't remember to lift carpets up. I know you need to check if it is fitted properly to the gripper but you can't lift a carpet thats glued without disturbing it, suppose if its a concrete floor you take it that its glued down?
Done plenty of hessian backed wool mix with no problems. I use a truckmount so 250psi isn't  excessive

[scott johns]

you sure it wasn't Belgium wilton

[Richard Harwood]

Not completely but was told its a wool mix and must admit  didn't look like B W by the way customer is a retired carpet cleaner....may be he should of known ( or did he? )I noticed when i lifted the carpet that some of the underlay was stuck to the floor and some was stuck to the carpet ( it was loose when i lifted it ) hummm

[scott johns]

perhaps when you left there was a bit of fowl play as he wanted a new carpet who knows lesson to be learned all the best

[Richard Harwood]

Well didn't want to say but you took the words right out of my mouth. He told me the carpet can't be stretched back either, don't know if thats true or not anyway got insurance on it now

[Steve Chapman]

Wool hessian backed carpets should normally be fitted on grippers, so maybe the blame lies with the inappropriate fitting of the carpet. ?

[Hilton]

From your description it sounds like BW stuck down on underlay (as it should be) stuck down to concrete floor (as it should be) .
You can be tricked into thinking BW is a wool mix of course that's the whole point and why it was originally called a  Fake or False Wilton.

You say it is 'Hessian' backed are you sure ?  When you pulled it back could you see the pattern through the back ? If so it has no backing as such but is woven into the jute, this is what causes the shrinkage when even slightly damp.

If the old fella is a retired CC he would(or should) have know full well that he had a cheap but of tat down that should not be wet cleaned,. To late now  I am afraid use it as a lesson learned .

[Dave_Lee]

Sounds to me its a quick cheap fit job. Probably glued down yes but just at the edges. Underlay first then carpet. Always going to be a problem when cleaned. Fitting it this way avoids messy job of gluing gripper to floor then waiting at least 24 hours for it to set before fitting carpet. Hessian backed carpet not secured can shrink, but once thoroughly dried can be re-stretched but will require gripper being installed.
Dave.

[Richard Harwood]

Thanks for your input guys

[John Kelly]

Being a retired carpet cleaner doesn't mean he would know what the carpet was. Its an unfortunate fact that there are cleaners out there who don't have a clue what they are cleaning.

[dutchman]

Your right there John 

[tony bish]

Wool hessian backed carpets should normally be fitted on grippers, so maybe the blame lies with the inappropriate fitting of the carpet. ?

Agree .

[Hilton]

Only if it's a secondary backed and that hasn't been established yet,otherwise the fitting is fine..

[Steve Fortt]

Sounds to me its a quick cheap fit job. Probably glued down yes but just at the edges. Underlay first then carpet. Always going to be a problem when cleaned. Fitting it this way avoids messy job of gluing gripper to floor then waiting at least 24 hours for it to set before fitting carpet. Hessian backed carpet not secured can shrink, but once thoroughly dried can be re-stretched but will require gripper being installed.
Dave.

Totally agree with you Dave.

Once dried, it can be power strecthed back onto gripper. BW or Axminsters are usually glued to underlay when covering large areas (ie function rooms) This is due to the shear size, weight and ridged ness of the carpet which can be very difficult to strech with a kicker. 

We fit lots of Axminster and BW into lounge diners (domestic customers)and always double up on the gripper. We never glue down.

[Hilton]

Do you fit BW over underlay ?

[tony bish]

Stated it was Hessian backed ,these carpets should have underlay and gripper it is not designed to be stuck .