[Nick Day]

 Solar Steve I think I should point out that there are no laws with regard to Franchising at all.

[NWH]

8 weekly I really rub you up the wrong way don't I your like a fat woman that gets annoyed when she sees a younger more attractive one arnt you lol I annoys you  because I don't come on here stroking people's egos,you are in the infancy of employing people if you haven't had idiots and people try and take you for a ride you can't have been doing it long enough pal. You will remember me one day when you get taken for a fool,wait until someone who works for you says he's got to leave early today coz it's his turn to pick to kids up or his over bearing Mrs try's to run his life in and out of work.

No, you don't rub me up the wrong way. But you always attack people that get better prices/more customers/better staff and will either never accept that they are telling the truth or else just point out all the things that went wrong for you and assume that they will go wrong for someone else. You are a "glass half empty" person.

It's quite possible that I will make mistakes in hiring people and things won't always be perfect (my one member of staff is causing some issues at the moment because he's going through a breakup), but it's just an issue at the moment and we will get through it. it's annoying, but it won't cloud my views on things and make me aggressively assume everything and everyone is rubbish.

I don't attack you I point out what has happened to me and many many others I've been doing this job quiet a while now and I hear some playing a trumpet about how well they are doing when TBH they ain't doing anything out of the ordinary m8,I have had tears in the van with em them telling me all there relationship problems you name it,at times your a marriage guidance counsellor. You have said in the past I don't treat them well or pay them enough which is not true,the majority of people going for a window cleaning job do not take it seriously they think it's on the same level of knocking on doors and asking to clean the homeowners car lol,what I mean is they don't think or comprehend it could possibly be a proper job.

[Dave Willis]

eh 

[Mick Kent]

NWH is right regarding staff..
Its rare to find a good 1 and if he is that good he soon realises how he can do it himself..
2 in a van will always start well then they do a few con roofs without telling you then it escilates to they have the walk ups for themselfs then before you know it they have built a full round up behind your back..
Any employers who think this isnt happening are deluded.
Answere this. If you was working for someone for £10 an hour and your at the last house of the day where a lady opposite asks if you can clean her con roof for£80 which is what your days pay is! Tell me you wouldnt clean it without telling your boss!! Then from how easy that was to get away with before you know it you are being taken for a ride. Had it happen to me so many times, i just sub work now and.except that any that get picked up and add on jobs wont be mine... mainly commercial now so it isnt an issue but when domestic with 3 vans out i was being taken for a fool! 2 gay guys i had working stitched me right up saying jobs had cancaled and picked up jobs on the side near existing customers etc etc and when i told them to f off they approached all the customers they had been cleaning for 2 years saying im the bad guy bullying them off the round and i lost nearly 50 percent of customers to them and nothing i could do.. i took it on the chin and decided to never employ again.
Maybe with a franchise aggreement things would have been different! Who knows.

You want a guy with slight learning difficulties or who is simple and honest that customers can like and you can trust! Clever dicks that make out they are better than sliced bread end up being no better than burnt toast and if they were better than sliced bread then why would they be employed window cleaners??

[Rich Wilts]

I know a fella who franchises work out. Works round Tiverton way. He owns two properties. One in Spain, spends a week month there.

If anyone tried to do the dirty on him they would regret it.

[Dave Willis]

I think most windies with learning difficulties frequent this forum.

[Rich Wilts]

You want a guy with slight learning difficulties who is simple

NWH has his own round allegedly.

[Dave Willis]

 

[AuRavelling79]

I think most windies with learning difficulties frequent this forum.

Yeah. And the most "speshul" become moderators.

[AuRavelling79]

You want a guy with slight learning difficulties who is simple

NWH has his own round allegedly.

And you want someone who is not taking days off; spending too much time on the angry bus.

[NWH]

I'm doing alright thanks better than someone who started this going by the figures lol 🍾🍾🍾🍾

[chris turner]

NWH is right regarding staff..
Its rare to find a good 1 and if he is that good he soon realises how he can do it himself..
2 in a van will always start well then they do a few con roofs without telling you then it escilates to they have the walk ups for themselfs then before you know it they have built a full round up behind your back..
Any employers who think this isnt happening are deluded.
Answere this. If you was working for someone for £10 an hour and your at the last house of the day where a lady opposite asks if you can clean her con roof for£80 which is what your days pay is! Tell me you wouldnt clean it without telling your boss!! Then from how easy that was to get away with before you know it you are being taken for a ride. Had it happen to me so many times, i just sub work now and.except that any that get picked up and add on jobs wont be mine... mainly commercial now so it isnt an issue but when domestic with 3 vans out i was being taken for a fool! 2 gay guys i had working stitched me right up saying jobs had cancaled and picked up jobs on the side near existing customers etc etc and when i told them to f off they approached all the customers they had been cleaning for 2 years saying im the bad guy bullying them off the round and i lost nearly 50 percent of customers to them and nothing i could do.. i took it on the chin and decided to never employ again.
Maybe with a franchise aggreement things would have been different! Who knows.

You want a guy with slight learning difficulties or who is simple and honest that customers can like and you can trust! Clever dicks that make out they are better than sliced bread end up being no better than burnt toast and if they were better than sliced bread then why would they be employed window cleaners??

Very good point Mick, which I can personally vouch for as once upon a time I was an employee of a large cleaning company (£1 million turnover) and I'm not ashamed to admit I took some jobs on the side.
Long story short...
A customer asked me for a quote, on behalf of the company i was working for, to clean their roof, gutters, fascias, soffits and full conservatory. I was trusted by said company to give out quotes as I was usually bang on,  but as this was a big job I rang the 'boss' first.
He asked my opinion, which I gave, a price of £700 and a full days work for 2 of us. I even offered to do it that Saturday as I knew we were busy.
His response shocked me. 'Tell her £1500 and the 2 of you try and get it done in half a day'.
I told him there's no way she"ll go for that, she had the same work done 2 years ago for £500!. Plus we"ll never do it in half a day, the roof will take that long alone!
His reply was "tell her its £1500 but as she's a good customer we'll knock £500 off and do it for a grand. If she doesn't like that then f@ck her, she can get the pikeys to do it for £500".

So you want to know what this pikey right here did..
I put the phone down and said "yes sure madam il be able to the work this Saturday for you, for £500

Went back to the office that day and told him she said no to the price.
We parted ways shortly after that, the words chumbucket use to describe vin basically describe this guy to a tee. The greed and arrogance of the man made me want to climb over his desk and headbutt him every time I went back to that office.
In the time I was there the work loads grew and grew, so did his prices. We started off doing around 18-20 houses a day, the 2 of us, with a few add ons a week. By the time I left it was around 28 a day, average house price was £18, often with add ons, gutters , con roofs etc on top but our wages stayed the same (£80 a day).
When we ever suggested extra money for all the extra work we were doing his response was always the same, " if you don't like it I can easily find someone else who"ll work for £80 a day".

I guess my 'bitterness' towards some on here stems from that experience, Iv seen first hand how nice guys can become complete bell ends when they grow to a certain a level. No respect for anyone other then themselves and their bank balance. Having this attitude will almost certainly open up the possibility of their employees going behind their back.
I'm not saying everyone is like this, and I'm not taking a swipe at you Mick because you seem cool, i think you just got unlucky, on the other hand I think vin has shown 'glimpses' of this attitude.
2 posts created in a matter of days, one titled 'customers rolling in', the other '£250,032', just ooze a sense narcissism.
Those who think that 'highly' of themselves normally look down on others, you know, the ones that are actually earning them the money.

[8weekly]

NWH is right regarding staff..
Its rare to find a good 1 and if he is that good he soon realises how he can do it himself..
2 in a van will always start well then they do a few con roofs without telling you then it escilates to they have the walk ups for themselfs then before you know it they have built a full round up behind your back..
Any employers who think this isnt happening are deluded.
Answere this. If you was working for someone for £10 an hour and your at the last house of the day where a lady opposite asks if you can clean her con roof for£80 which is what your days pay is! Tell me you wouldnt clean it without telling your boss!! Then from how easy that was to get away with before you know it you are being taken for a ride. Had it happen to me so many times, i just sub work now and.except that any that get picked up and add on jobs wont be mine... mainly commercial now so it isnt an issue but when domestic with 3 vans out i was being taken for a fool! 2 gay guys i had working stitched me right up saying jobs had cancaled and picked up jobs on the side near existing customers etc etc and when i told them to f off they approached all the customers they had been cleaning for 2 years saying im the bad guy bullying them off the round and i lost nearly 50 percent of customers to them and nothing i could do.. i took it on the chin and decided to never employ again.
Maybe with a franchise aggreement things would have been different! Who knows.

You want a guy with slight learning difficulties or who is simple and honest that customers can like and you can trust! Clever dicks that make out they are better than sliced bread end up being no better than burnt toast and if they were better than sliced bread then why would they be employed window cleaners??

Very good point Mick, which I can personally vouch for as once upon a time I was an employee of a large cleaning company (£1 million turnover) and I'm not ashamed to admit I took some jobs on the side.
Long story short...
A customer asked me for a quote, on behalf of the company i was working for, to clean their roof, gutters, fascias, soffits and full conservatory. I was trusted by said company to give out quotes as I was usually bang on,  but as this was a big job I rang the 'boss' first.
He asked my opinion, which I gave, a price of £700 and a full days work for 2 of us. I even offered to do it that Saturday as I knew we were busy.
His response shocked me. 'Tell her £1500 and the 2 of you try and get it done in half a day'.
I told him there's no way she"ll go for that, she had the same work done 2 years ago for £500!. Plus we"ll never do it in half a day, the roof will take that long alone!
His reply was "tell her its £1500 but as she's a good customer we'll knock £500 off and do it for a grand. If she doesn't like that then f@ck her, she can get the pikeys to do it for £500".

So you want to know what this pikey right here did..
I put the phone down and said "yes sure madam il be able to the work this Saturday for you, for £500

Went back to the office that day and told him she said no to the price.
We parted ways shortly after that, the words chumbucket use to describe vin basically describe this guy to a tee. The greed and arrogance of the man made me want to climb over his desk and headbutt him every time I went back to that office.
In the time I was there the work loads grew and grew, so did his prices. We started off doing around 18-20 houses a day, the 2 of us, with a few add ons a week. By the time I left it was around 28 a day, average house price was £18, often with add ons, gutters , con roofs etc on top but our wages stayed the same (£80 a day).
When we ever suggested extra money for all the extra work we were doing his response was always the same, " if you don't like it I can easily find someone else who"ll work for £80 a day".

I guess my 'bitterness' towards some on here stems from that experience, Iv seen first hand how nice guys can become complete bell ends when they grow to a certain a level. No respect for anyone other then themselves and their bank balance. Having this attitude will almost certainly open up the possibility of their employees going behind their back.
I'm not saying everyone is like this, and I'm not taking a swipe at you Mick because you seem cool, i think you just got unlucky, on the other hand I think vin has shown 'glimpses' of this attitude.
2 posts created in a matter of days, one titled 'customers rolling in', the other '£250,032', just ooze a sense narcissism.
Those who think that 'highly' of themselves normally look down on others, you know, the ones that are actually earning them the money.

Vin doesn't employ, the franchisees get 80% and I'm pretty sure they get 100% of add ons. Apart from that though, great post. 

[Dave Willis]

Lot's of articulate replies and lots of less than articulate. However, most people seem to be attacking Vin and offering the pitfalls of employing giving their bad experiences of employing. Few seem to notice Vin is franchising which is different to straightforward employing. It has a different contract for a start giving advantages to both sides. The franchisee knows what he's getting into (it's written in a contract). By supplying the work Vin can also predict what he's going to earn from each franchisee. It wouldn't pay to employ someone with half a brain as most employers on here would like. He needs someone with a bit of intelligence because in effect they are running their own little businesses.
None of us would want to be a franchisee but there's plenty out there who do it seems.

Vin isn't stupid enough to give you all the nuts and bolts of running a franchise business - why would he? He paid for the package supplied by Ian, which isn't a huge amount of money in the grand scheme of things but anyone of you could do the same if you have the gumption and drive.

Unfortunately  Vin's posting upsets lots of people and I'm not sure why. Others can brag of their £60 an hour earnings, multiple vans, pretend offices, five star holidays, tax dodging ,office paperwork, expensive poles, massive earnings 'cos they live "Down South" and LOL a lot - they seem to get a slap on the back, but Vins straightforward "I'm doing really well" posts are like red rags to the proverbial bull 

Having said that, the other Alan Sugars who like to come on here and use us as cash cows deserve all the stick they get. 

[AuRavelling79]

MOD HAT ON:

This is a "robust" and very interesting thread. We could do with more of them and I recommend that anyone with a modicum of nouse learns from it by sorting the wheat from the chaff. However some have crossed the line into unacceptable behaviour - some more subtly than others.

I haven't the inclination to "proof read" all the previous posts but from this point forward let's have less abuse of other posters - especially by using slang terms for genitalia - and I have also noticed "clever" mis-spelling of a poster's name by one who seems to be punctilious in his spelling elsewhere.

Anyone doing so from hereon in is on the naughty step.

Thank you.

MOD HAT OFF.

[Walter Mitty]

Definition of punctilious:  a word whose meaning will be totally forgotten by the end of March.

[Perfect Windows]

Very good point Mick, which I can personally vouch for as once upon a time I was an employee of a large cleaning company (£1 million turnover) and I'm not ashamed to admit I took some jobs on the side.
Long story short...
.. read but removed for quote readability...
I'm not saying everyone is like this, and I'm not taking a swipe at you Mick because you seem cool, i think you just got unlucky, on the other hand I think vin has shown 'glimpses' of this attitude.
2 posts created in a matter of days, one titled 'customers rolling in', the other '£250,032', just ooze a sense narcissism.
Those who think that 'highly' of themselves normally look down on others, you know, the ones that are actually earning them the money.

Nothing in there I can disagree with (except maybe the last paragraph).  If you treat people like idiots or profit centres you deserve everything you get.  And the thing is you will get it.  It never fails to amaze me that people treat other people like dirt and seem surprised when the favour is returned.

However, as to the last paragraph, here's my answer.  Sorry to repeat myself, as I know I have mentioned it before; it's above  my desk all the time, I look at it all the time and I live by it all the time:



Now, I'm just a bloke on the internet so there's no way I can prove that I do so.  However, I'm yet to have anything even remotely akin to a disagreement, let alone an argument, with any of our franchisees.  That either means I'm blind or we're doing things mostly correctly.

Your guy sounds like he treated you as disposable profit centres; the franchisees are (not legally but in principle) our partners.

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

...
 I have also noticed "clever" mis-spelling of a poster's name by one who seems to be punctilious in his spelling elsewhere.
...

Sorry: I should have stayed above that level.

He is the first one to make it to my ignore list* so I won't be misspelling his name ever again, accidentally or otherwise. 

Vin



* Though it will make my life an empty shell without his gems to read.

[EDIT] Didn't realise that ignoring someone was retrospective till I looked back to find a post in this thread and noticed an absence.  Which was nice.

[Perfect Windows]

WOW £250,032 yearly turnover leave some windows for everyone else to clean.

Debt list for all the rounds must be around the 5k mark

Keep up the great work Paul

I posted a poll on here a couple of years ago and worked out fairly unscientifically that (slightly pessimistically) about four in ten people have their windows cleaned.  (Note the brilliant gag by 8weekly as the second reply, a gag I utterly missed at the time but acknowledge now)

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=175709.msg1483730#msg1483730

The thing is that we're cleaning one in about eighty houses (1.25%) in our catchment area.  If 40% are being cleaned I don't see doing 10% as being a tough target; when we've been in a street for more than about four years that's the minimum we'd expect (we'll take on one house in a street in the knowledge that they rarely end up like that after a few visits).

So, if we hit that target, the turnover of all the franchisees would be £2m (expect to hear some people's brains exploding as they read this number).  There'd be about twenty five or thirty franchisees (depending on round size and income requirements) but there would still be space in our one piddling city for another seventy to ninety guys with rounds the same size as the franchisees.  This really is a truly wonderful business we're all in.

Vin, at the end of the day, whether you've built it up to 250K or 500K or 750K (other multiples also work well) it will be like one of those films you see where the guy says "we'll be sitting on a beach earning 20%". 

I wish.  I'm a believer that you get rewards in proportion to the graft you put in, so I don't believe the image.  I'm not sure anyone (bar maybe big landowners) can do that so there'll always be hard work involved.  Thing is, though, I enjoy it all.  I enjoy my cleaning days and I enjoy my days dealing with the business.  Thirteen years till I retire, so lots more fun to have.

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

Vin, do your franchisee's operate there own areas, or do they overlap? When work came in, would you assign it to a franchisee whom area it is, or would if they overlap, who gets it?

Also to everyone who have shared the pearls of their wisdom, thanks. It really does help and motivate (some of) us further down the food chain!

The franchisees overlap.  The rule is that if they can do a new job from a spot where they could reasonably park to do an existing job, it's theirs.  Otherwise it goes to any franchisee who is looking to grow his round.   We provide the work, so they aren't in competition.

This has an unexpected benefit that I hadn't really thought of till it happened.  There's a street half a mile away from here that is now cleaned by three franchisees and also by me.  We're all there every six weeks at different times.  What that means to the people who live there is that, on average, they see one of our vans every one and a half weeks, so we have a startling number of enquiries from the road.

Now, some might say that's unfair in terms of compactness of work but, as I said, the split is based on having to move the van.  All of them have customers in adjoining streets so they have to drive a minute to their next job rather than fifteen seconds.  For that small cost in efficiency, they gain from all the enquiries generated by someone being in that street almost once a week.  Thus, their cleans from the single park of the van become more and more compact.

Vin