[Perfect Windows]

blah, blah, blah...

To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things.

Good for you.  Jolly good.  Well done.  Your opinion is important to me.

Vin

[Walter Mitty]

@Vin

Just skimmed through the posts following your reply to me and come back to mention - if you check my point about a van I said "new (ish)" but it did cross a line ending.

I take your points about e.g. accountant referrals and skimming off of setting up charges.

May I ask - if a franchisee has a customer walk up to him, does he have free rein to negotiate the price and does he keep 100% at least as long as he is a franchisee?

All our pricing is menu-based and, in general, we stick to it unless a house is well off the norm.  However, that decision is entirely up to the franchisee.

Regardless of how a customer comes in, royalties are due.  If that seems harsh, the logic is that the only reason someone even sees the guy out working is because they are a franchisee in the first place.  If it wasn't for the franchise the work wouldn't have come in.

Vin

I see where you're coming from, but that does seem a little harsh to me.   I know one guy who used to let people keep 100% of the first clean, because they can be far more time consuming.  After that though, the work was passed on up the hierarchy.  I suppose it was just a way of acknowledging that first cleans take longer, and a little encouragement to be honest about it.

[Tom-01]

I'm still wondering if any franchisor on here has had a franchisee decide to go on their own and try taking their work?

The reason I'm keen to know is that I will more thank likely franchise my business, so a little light shed on potential pitfalls would be a help?

I understand about the franchise agreement being signed etc but has it actually ever happened to anyone where they have been in a position to use it? If not then great. If yes then maybe it is open to abuse and bases really need to be covered if you would lose in court or if it was too much hassle to go court. If that's the case then it is really down to good will and hoping that the franchisee behaves.

[ChumBucket]

blah, blah, blah...

To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things.

Good for you.  Jolly good.  Well done.  Your opinion is important to me.

Vin

So you keep saying but you still reply to my observations. 

[johnwillan]

Hi Tom

I know of one that has lost one and another lost two.

Any management situation wether it be franchising, renting, employment etc can result in people falling out through misunderstandings & resentment.

The clause that covers this is "non-competing" which means the operator regardless of relationship (see above) is restricted geographically for a set period to operate in the same manner as before, however in order for this to stand any chance of success it would need to be deemed as "fair" ie "not within 6 miles for 1 year" rather than "not with UK ever".

I believe it is easier to enforce this through employment contracts rather than the other options, a judge would no doubt be reluctant to stop a persons livelihood regardless of the situation and a franchisor would require an injunction to enforce the non competing clause costing around £10k.

In most cases it's probably best to let them walk, not all clients leave and you'd be better channelling the funds & energy into moving forwards.

Most important of all you would hopefully learn how to improve the system to create such value that prevents such things from reoccurring, however I'm  not sure any system is full proof, if you decide to grow you just need to work out which system suits you best and hang on for a bumpy ride!

HTH

John

[Perfect Windows]

blah, blah, blah...

To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things.

Good for you.  Jolly good.  Well done.  Your opinion is important to me.

Vin

So you keep saying but you still reply to my observations. 

I haven't replied to any of your observations (observations? Personal insults, actually) except with my standard reply.  Unless you mean the reply I made to "micky barber".  I did respond to that.  Perhaps that's the observation of yours to which you're referring.

Vin

[NWH]

The main thing I've noticed when this is talked about is that when the topic of who's buying into this crops up the answer is you must be sure they are the right kind of people before you let them but into it,I think what that means in the kindest possible way is to make sure they are not to ambitious and to try a sniff out the ones who you think may cause problems like running off with the work because deep down the cost and the hassle of getting it back and policing it all if they are ripping you off is almost impossible to deal with. How on earth could you ever know if they are doing a house without telling you if they said that customer was lost from you yourself but they carried on cleaning it,IMO you are being very very careful who you sell this to because anyone with half a brain would be able to rip you off. Ok you threaten them with legal action it will cost you money in legal fees and like I say the Hassle involved would be a nightmare,all the comments on here are pro this but I would love to know the truth with people that have had the other end of the crappy stick.

[ChumBucket]

blah, blah, blah...

To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things.

Good for you.  Jolly good.  Well done.  Your opinion is important to me.

Vin

So you keep saying but you still reply to my observations. 

I haven't replied to any of your observations (observations? Personal insults, actually) except with my standard reply.  Unless you mean the reply I made to "micky barber".  I did respond to that.  Perhaps that's the observation of yours to which you're referring.

Vin

These are not personal insults, they are genuine observations- to which you more often than not respond to.

[NWH]

I have known people get ripped off from workers when they actually work for them lol,how and why wouldn't they do that if they were out on there own alday away from you,I think anyone who thinks this does not or won't happen is mistaken. There are two sides to this story we have only heard one side of it in everything written about it I haven't heard 1 horror story.

[johnwillan]

Hi NWH

The same applies to any system be it franchise, employment, renting etc, there are many happy franchisee's, employee's and subcontractors with "full brains" operating throughout the world in all manner of businesses, likewise there are many that are not happy too. I think it all boils down to what suits each person, for some that will be employment, others subcontract or franchise and entrepreneurs that go it alone,

John

[johnwillan]

No doubt there are plenty of horror stories wether it be franchising, employment or subcontracting, it's rarely an easy ride once you embark on expansion, management of people and their expectations appears more an art rather than science.

I have no doubt some on here have experienced all manner of difficulties and set backs along the way, the important thing is to learn from it and move on.

[NWH]

Hi John,I agree but this industry is unique with cash changing hands etc on a daily basis you would have to be a certain kind of person to do it long term hence we need to find the right people-person to be a franchisee. People with a submissive personality comes to mind because anyone who knows how window cleaning works once they are up and running and gradually picking up work and building there own little round on the side will chuck it in and go on there own even if it means forsaking he 8-10 i they paid in the first place.

[NWH]

Even all county window cleaning had enough and he employed he had 8 2 man teams out on the road.

[Tom-01]

Hi Tom

I know of one that has lost one and another lost two.

Any management situation wether it be franchising, renting, employment etc can result in people falling out through misunderstandings & resentment.

The clause that covers this is "non-competing" which means the operator regardless of relationship (see above) is restricted geographically for a set period to operate in the same manner as before, however in order for this to stand any chance of success it would need to be deemed as "fair" ie "not within 6 miles for 1 year" rather than "not with UK ever".

I believe it is easier to enforce this through employment contracts rather than the other options, a judge would no doubt be reluctant to stop a persons livelihood regardless of the situation and a franchisor would require an injunction to enforce the non competing clause costing around £10k.

In most cases it's probably best to let them walk, not all clients leave and you'd be better channelling the funds & energy into moving forwards.

Most important of all you would hopefully learn how to improve the system to create such value that prevents such things from reoccurring, however I'm  not sure any system is full proof, if you decide to grow you just need to work out which system suits you best and hang on for a bumpy ride!

HTH

John

Hi John

Thanks for the reply. That's what I was after. As NWH said there must be a story of it happening to someone. And as you said it would cost a lot of money to go to court so best to leave it, learn and hope it doesn't happen again.

So really the possibility is that I could build a round for someone and after a while they could just take the customers for themself, I could take them to court for breach of contract and may win, however the cost and time (more cost) involved makes that a worthless task, I'd be better off leaving it. But that means a franchisee could 'take' £30k of 'my' work and I would just have to write that off. That's a lot of effort I have out in to lose.

Of course as you say anything can happen in any situation of growth so you have to be prepared as it is not all roses.

Thanks for the clarification though I just wondered if the franchisor did take them to court, win and if it was all worthwhile.

Tom

[Mick Kent]

blah, blah, blah...

To clarify, I don't care about your business and wish you all the success in the world, it matters not to me - however, I will confirm again, I do think you're a jumped up, narcissistic, big headed K N O B regardless of those things.

Good for you.  Jolly good.  Well done.  Your opinion is important to me.

Vin

Was someone bullied in there younger years Vinny???
You sound like the sticks and stones kid!!
Your opinion is important to me
Your opinion is important to me
Blaaah blaaah blaah blaah blaah
Blaaaaaaaah blaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Have you learnt how to use a squeegie yet??

[johnwillan]

Selecting the "right" person is always the key but you don't always get it right, my favourite quote on the subject was "employ on personality, look after the good ones and get rid of the bad", he employs over 1500 people handling cash on a daily basis, in some cases ex offenders, it's run purely on trust and he dismisses around 1 per week for theft, even so he wouldn't have it any other way.

It's not a great analogy as it's retail therefore the barrier to entry (setting up on your own) is quite high but I think there's  a lot to learn from this approach.

The assumption that anyone and therefore I assume "everyone" is implied would try or even wish to go it alone after a period of time is simply an assumption, time will tell but I'm sure if treated wth respect, supported throughout and provided with value then no doubt a great team/business could be built.

[johnwillan]

Hi Tom

Yes, as in any structure the operator could simply walk and retain some/all of the round, they would risk a potential lawsuit, forgo any help and support provided by the franchisor and would need to replace any lost business.

It may be worthwhile it depends on the relationship between each party.

The cases to which I referred did not go to court, all three operators lost in excess of 30% of their business which continued to be covered by the franchise, one operator eventually gave up, another will soon do the same and the other continues to operate as before but without the cost or support.
 

John

[NWH]

Treated with respect or stroked for there benefit more like.

[8weekly]

The main thing I've noticed when this is talked about is that when the topic of who's buying into this crops up the answer is you must be sure they are the right kind of people before you let them but into it,I think what that means in the kindest possible way is to make sure they are not to ambitious and to try a sniff out the ones who you think may cause problems like running off with the work because deep down the cost and the hassle of getting it back and policing it all if they are ripping you off is almost impossible to deal with. How on earth could you ever know if they are doing a house without telling you if they said that customer was lost from you yourself but they carried on cleaning it,IMO you are being very very careful who you sell this to because anyone with half a brain would be able to rip you off. Ok you threaten them with legal action it will cost you money in legal fees and like I say the Hassle involved would be a nightmare,all the comments on here are pro this but I would love to know the truth with people that have had the other end of the crappy stick.

I reckon if you recruited franchisees they would be likely be thieves & untrustworthy in the same way that those you employed were thieves and untrustworthy. You start by thinking that's what people are like and you end up with people like that. I am interviewing my second employee next week. He's currently a postman but wants to earn more money, which he will with me. He's a decent and honest bloke. There are literally millions of decent and honest blokes out there. They don't all want to steal your money. But if that's all you expect, that's all you'll get.

[Lee Pryor]

So all the reasons I gave up on here are still in full flow I see. Very dissapointing really.

Vin, you dont need a pat on the back from any of the MODDED for bad language on here, your doing extreamly well and far better than they ever will.

My advice is just grow your business and keep it to yourself. Thats what I do now. why help them anyway with info your have gained.  You simply dont need to and have nothing to gain anyway.

Just keep going mate and keep the bigger picture of your business to yourself. This forum is really only good for day to day stuff like the latest brush or pole. Its poop for bigger discussions on growing a substantial bussiness simply because so few on here have. as a result they just want to cut you down.

Can everyone just step back and realise Vin has gone from nothing, to within 5 years a quater of a million in turnover, multiple francisees with 2 more in the pipeline! So you guys who have all been going much longer and achieved basically nothing in comparison feel you can act like this simply because you dont understand or agree? Dear oh dear.