[Dave Willis]

Interesting thought isn't it. Wouldn't it be handy to just fill the tank from the tap?

[Rich Wilts]

I've had a thought, ok i know thats dangerous !!    But what Dave said about the clear finish on dishes /glasses got me thinking. I havn't got a dishwasher, i do mine in the sink and my glasses still come out perfect.

When i looked on Google at what it actually means/ does when the water tension breaks down well you can see the difference by dropping a paperclip in a glass of water. Plain water the clip floats, water with something in it to break the surface tension and the clip sinks . Apply that to dirt instead of a paperclip ?  I know most of the dirt we take off is water soluble but how would less water tension affect that ?

I'm gonna try adding a bit to some plain old tap water and see the results. We might all be conned into buying RO's that we don't need ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR-ZV-_fQok

[Dave Willis]

Taken from Titan Labs Website about GG4 - never tried it myself - our water is around 300 tds.



Crystal clear windows. The windows look like they’re open!

I was a skeptic when I read on your website that Glass Gleam-4 could be applied to a French window, scrubbed on the glass and then rinsed off with a hose, without the use of a squeegee. Wow!! Crystal clear windows. The windows look like they’re open! You guys really have something here. It would have taken me a considerable amount of time to apply the solution with a sleeve, squeegee and then detail the frames and sill. This way I cleaned the frame, mullions and sill of all of the dust and pollen, in addition to the glass.

Frank T.
—Emerald Window Cleaning - Waconia, MN

[CleanClear]

I've had a thought, ok i know thats dangerous !!    But what Dave said about the clear finish on dishes /glasses got me thinking. I havn't got a dishwasher, i do mine in the sink and my glasses still come out perfect.

When i looked on Google at what it actually means/ does when the water tension breaks down well you can see the difference by dropping a paperclip in a glass of water. Plain water the clip floats, water with something in it to break the surface tension and the clip sinks . Apply that to dirt instead of a paperclip ?  I know most of the dirt we take off is water soluble but how would less water tension affect that ?

I'm gonna try adding a bit to some plain old tap water and see the results. We might all be conned into buying RO's that we don't need ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR-ZV-_fQok

Thats the thing though, i see these experiments and they're interesting in so far as seeing what effect they have on the water and stuff. But how that translates to how we use it i've no idea. I'm just gonna suck it and see. After all i find it bizzare that after spending so long purifying water that i'm now actually adding stuff in to it. Goes against everything i thought.

[Dave Willis]

I'm surprised there's so little information to be honest. I thought the big boys might have done some research.

On another note I found this:

GG-4 in solution is 98.7% water, and the way it works is by creating a negative ion, non-magnetic surface on the pane.  This does two things: first, it instantly breaks the bonds that hold particulates to the pane, and second, it prevents moisture from clinging to the pane. This leaves your customer with windows that shine like diamonds in the sun, rather than reveal a film that quickly gets dirty again, like dish soaps.

Which I take it to mean that rather than GG4 being 98% water which some people like SeanK thinks. They mean it's 98% water After being mixed with water for trad cleaning - you're not buying 98% water!

[keyser soze]

interesting. do you think gg4 is better than vision?

[Tadgh O Shea]

I've had a thought, ok i know thats dangerous !!    But what Dave said about the clear finish on dishes /glasses got me thinking. I havn't got a dishwasher, i do mine in the sink and my glasses still come out perfect.

When i looked on Google at what it actually means/ does when the water tension breaks down well you can see the difference by dropping a paperclip in a glass of water. Plain water the clip floats, water with something in it to break the surface tension and the clip sinks . Apply that to dirt instead of a paperclip ?  I know most of the dirt we take off is water soluble but how would less water tension affect that ?

I'm gonna try adding a bit to some plain old tap water and see the results. We might all be conned into buying RO's that we don't need ?

Hi CleanClear, you are better off without a dishwasher as the main ingredient in dishwasher Tablets,Powder, and Liquid is sodium hydroxide, which causes detrimental damage to glassware cutlery pots and pans etc, this is the same corrosive ingredient that is used in many of the cleaning chemicals which are used to deep clean ingrained soils from pvc/upvc frames and will just end up degrading and making them become dull looking, just to share for any guys who don't realize how damaging cleaning chemicals which contain sodium hydroxide really are. For anyone who is not to sure just ask your supplier for the sds  which will show the ingredients on the products they are supplying then you can make your own judgement. And meant to say thankfully many suppliers in the UK have safer alternatives which they can offer. Tadgh

[Dave Willis]

GG4 or Vision?
I think they are very similar - at the moment I prefer Vision. They both do similar things to the water - so would a lot of other products. The spec sheets are very different so the ingredients aren't the same. GG4 claims to be very green (but there's also an eco version of Vision). The Vision I'm using at the moment contains a flammable liquid and solvents dirived from plant extracts. So it's possible to guess what it might be but I have no idea what percentages  of what ingredients they are mixing (neither does it matter to me).
The surface tension is being reduced plus some gains in cleaning ability - not massively but enough to make a small difference I think.

[CleanClear]

Right got a pleasant suprise today. I'd suspected as much. What i done was put some HG window cleaner in a back pack. Just a small squirt and filled it up with tap water, TDS 160. Yes it foamed and frothed everywhere when filling . Then set about cleaning two bay windows to test it. My first thought was i'd put to much HG in as when i cleaned with the brush it was far more frothy and soapy than i was comfortable with, or would of liked it to be. Results ? Perfect. No streak, spotting or anything just perfectly clean windows.
 Ok, i'm gonna test more. I've no idea what is a correct amount to put it. Whats to little or whats not enough. And  the other thing i'd be interested to find out is that although that test was fine, what would happen if it was a hot sunny day, would it still be the same perfect result ? I've no idea.

So just to be clear, i've put HG cleaner in my pure water tank. I'm making no claims for it doing anything other than appearing slightly foamy/frothy. I feel its slippier/smoother and easier to clean with. I'm aware that might be in my own head. The results are just a clear finish like you'd excpect with WFP and no additive.

I've also tested HG cleaner in a backpack with TAP WATER. The results are perfect, exactly the same.

It would be good if some others could give it a test out if you have a backpack laying about to test it, i'm not advocating anyone go shove a load in their purewater tank just yet. Be good to get some other feedback. If that stuff works like i'm seeing you can say goodbye to an RO or DI for me.

[Dave Willis]

http://www.madefrompinterest.net/magic-clean-windows/

[kempy]

Gg4 I found to be terrible . Offered very little . And is 90% water in the bottle you buy .
Think I binned mine as it was so diluted .

Not wanting to knock other products , but GG4 was abysmal

Think you will always need a DI smd a RO to remove elements and all the sediments and minerals to get the no spotting results to some degree ...

[CleanClear]

Think you will always need a DI smd a RO to remove elements and all the sediments and minerals to get the no spotting results to some degree ...

Have you tried vision just mixed with tap water ?

[Rich Wilts]

If all these additives are doing is breaking the surface tension to alleviate the issue of contaminants in the water what's wrong with just adding a dob of Fairy Liquid to your tank?

I'm not sure, though have an open mind, about your experience yesterday CC with the HG in your backpack water, as breaking the surface tension of a bucket of water still won't address the issue of dissolved components in your tap water. Will it?

[Rich Wilts]

Gg4 I found to be terrible . Offered very little . And is 90% water in the bottle you buy .
Think I binned mine as it was so diluted .

Which is odd, considering the mix ratio you suggest for Vision.

[Perfect Windows]

... the main ingredient in dishwasher Tablets,Powder, and Liquid is sodium hydroxide...

These were selected as the first three where I could find an ingredient list by Googling "dishwasher tablet ingredient list"

https://www.pg.com/productsafety/ingredients/household_care/dish_washing/cascade/Cascade_Powder_Ingredient_Disclosure.pdf

Ecover: Sodium Citrate, Sodium Percarbonate, Sodium Carbonate, Disodium Disilicate, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Poly Asparaginate, Tetra Acetyl Ethylene Diamine (TAED), Water, Iso-octyl Glucoside, D-glucitol, Rapeseed Oil, Perfume, Glycerol, Amylase, Subtilisin, Limonene, Sodium Gluconate.

Fairy Platinum all in one: Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Carbonate Peroxide , Copolymer of acrylic and sulphonic acids , Trideceth-n, PEG/PPG-10/2 Propylheptyl Ether ,Monosodium Etidronate , Protease

No sodium hydroxide in any of them as far as I can see.

Vin

[kempy]

Try doing the same over the summer days where the drying time is much quicker with the water .
The results will be unsatisfactory

[Shane sharples]

Sodium hydroxide seems to be mainly in bleach / drain unblocker etc ,
Found this website that lists loads of chems with sodium hydroxide in ...
http://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/search?tbl=TblChemicals&queryx=1310-73-2

[CleanClear]

If all these additives are doing is breaking the surface tension to alleviate the issue of contaminants in the water what's wrong with just adding a dob of Fairy Liquid to your tank?

I'm not sure, though have an open mind, about your experience yesterday CC with the HG in your backpack water, as breaking the surface tension of a bucket of water still won't address the issue of dissolved components in your tap water. Will it?

Matt i've no idea how it does it, all i know is it does it. It just leaves them clean like the glasses out your sink ?

As regards adding a dob of Fairy, well a few months ago i'd of said don't be so stupid. Now i'd give it ago to see what it does.

[CleanClear]

Try doing the same over the summer days where the drying time is much quicker with the water .
The results will be unsatisfactory

Have you tried this or is that a guess ? Have you tried it in the cooler weather like now and know it gives the results we want or have you found otherwise ?

[Rich Wilts]

If all these additives are doing is breaking the surface tension to alleviate the issue of contaminants in the water what's wrong with just adding a dob of Fairy Liquid to your tank?

I'm not sure, though have an open mind, about your experience yesterday CC with the HG in your backpack water, as breaking the surface tension of a bucket of water still won't address the issue of dissolved components in your tap water. Will it?

Matt i've no idea how it does it, all i know is it does it. It just leaves them clean like the glasses out your sink ?

As regards adding a dob of Fairy, well a few months ago i'd of said don't be so stupid. Now i'd give it ago to see what it does.

Interesting. The RO thing particularly, or the thought of no RO. That'd save me £1000 a year.