[kempy]

SeanK - I've never asked you to accept vision , never have .. Always said some will like it and some won't .

I had to prove the product to the Msds analyst and the Coshh  professional analysts.  These guys are much more qualified then the Analyst known as SeanK .

[SeanK]

GG4 90% water , great to buy this stuff

Gloopy - what's this word ?

Chinese Air ??

SeanK and others , I have regular said that not all persons will like vision  and that's just common sense .
SeanK , why not just accept that vision is selling ok and some persons like using it .
The Msds analyst passed the product and approved its claims . The claims are only standard claims and not like saying it will make our lass look 21 years young again 
Etc .

I would like to really argue etc with you SeanK , but it's good banter , comical  and it's harmless

Kempy you cant argue for the simple reason you don't have a single solid fact to explain how your product works, the best
you have ever come up is well guys seem to like it.
Doesn't matter how many questions you get asked you never have an answer or an explanation other than the same old
put downs.
I pointed out earlier how and what makes a window frame go dull and what it takes to restore the shine, please tell me
what part of  what I said was wrong.
Its the same when anybody comes on with a genuine problem the additive users never step up to the mark and recommend
Vision as the solution.
At the end of the day I honestly don't care how many buy your product and don't believe for one minute that people aren't
so I don't know why you keep asking me to accept it, I also believe that it may be of help to some with confidence issues.

I'm pretty sure that Kempy has never asked that if you.    Look above.

Me, like many others just get frustrated with the fact that any vision thread that comes up you chime in with your two pennies worth.

Just like that annoying kid at school who thinks by shouting the loudest it makes him right. Your the same.

Have you tried vision neat on frames? It works very very well!

Something you don't seem to get is that added shine can be from a surface being cleaner.

Just like polishing a car, you are removing dirt which allows the light to refract and bounce back to your eye, making it give the impression of a shine. It's just light bouncing back.

So by a product helping to clean better..... Over time this adds a better, more natural shine.

Only my thoughts! But lots of others seem to be finding the same thing.

Total rubbish, removing dirt will reveal the shine under it but it wont make it shine any better, if the frame has been
dulled by the sun weather and harsh chemicals as Tadgh mentioned then you could deep clean it and the shine wont come back
or get any better, the same goes for car paintwork.
That's not an opinion its a fact.

I agree with you in that particular instance.
Vision isn't a wonder cleaner that is going to repair a damaged unit, that goes without saying.

You are only quoting a particular circumstance and basing ALL your thoughts on that.

What about frames that are just a little bit ingrained with dirt? Or have those rubber seals that leach out black marks gradually?

If you manage to clean off that little extra bit of dirt, giving it a deeper clean, then you WILL reveal more of the natural shine. I believe this is the main power of using additives.

In my opinion ..........Giving that bit of extra ooooomf in cleaning power means a cleaner and in turn "shinier" window. This may not happen overnight, but regular and consistent use of vision has had this effect on my work.

Your entitled to your opinion but please don't state things as fact when you have no basis.

It wasn't too long ago you said all you need is extreme brushes, then you have now said after using supreme brushes you are finding them better for cleaning.   

Just agree to disagree and stop slating a product off that you have little to no knowledge of.

I have as much knowledge of the product as you more going by the rubbish you come out with trying to justify its use.
Keeps the windows clean longer.
As for the supreme brush well I haven't come to a decision on that one yet but I have no problem saying that I'm wrong
or giving something a go on advice of others, after all I did try your product.

[kempy]

Can't wait for the Univalve to come out

Then the expert SeanK can then analyse this product .

[kevincoggan]

The only way to add shine to a sun/ weather damaged frames is to remove the damaged material by either polishing it off or
coating over it.
So if additives are leaving a better shine then they are either turning the water into a rubbing/ polishing compound or leaving a coating.
This is simple stuff and shouldn't be fooling guys who do this for a living.

  For example upvc frames have added as an additive during manufacture tio2 titanium dioxide which helps to protect them against damage from sun/weather, because of this some upvc window and door manufacturers will offer a 25 year guarantee on their oem products. these same manufacturers will also recommend that harsh and aggressive cleaning chemicals should not be used when cleaning these type surfaces. upvc when new is bright shiny and has a lovely sheen to it, i damaged a huge amount of these surfaces myself over many years until i realized how corrosive the ingredients were in the cleaning  chemicals i was using. my point being its safer all round to ask your supplier for cleaning chemicals which are non-caustic non-corrosive and safe for use on pvc/upvc surfaces and that won't affect their shine.

tio2 is a whitening agent used in many cosmetics/toothpastes etc,yes its used in pvcu manufacturing only because we preferer whiter than white in the uk,there are around 47 shades of pvc window extrusions across the european market-for instance the germans and belgians prefer a more creamy white to us brits-hence the more ti02 added to the extrusions produced in the uk,rehau-a german product produced in wales for us brits is more white than say kommerling  which is slightly blueish in tint,compare that to spectus which is british and they are shades apart.
ti02 is not a protective agent it is a whitening  compound added to the product to give the required shade of white to which they require for a given hemisphere,

[SeanK]

SeanK - I've never asked you to accept vision , never have .. Always said some will like it and some won't .

I had to prove the product to the Msds analyst and the Coshh  professional analysts.  These guys are much more qualified then the Analyst known as SeanK .

That's just more bull to fool the gullible, all that proves is the product is not hazardous to health.

[Jonny 87]

For supposedly having more knowledge than me seank you can't seem to read and grasp the fact I have no links or ties to visions. I'm just a customer who buys it the same as everyone else. It wasn't "my product".

As you've had to resort to insults I think that says it all, and I'm going to leave it there! Enjoy your Saturday night!

 

[kempy]

I couldn't work with a Extreame brush , but that's my own preference

[SeanK]

Can't wait for the Univalve to come out

Then the expert SeanK can then analyse this product .

It a devise for turning your water on and off, get a grip or better a life.

[Dave Willis]

No ones told me yet how rinse aid makes glassware spotless and shiny - anyone know? Is it because it's squeaky clean or is it coated in something?

The glass is clean, all the rinse aid does is reduce any spotting you will get the exact same shine if you wash the glass in water and dry it off properly with a cloth.
You don t even need it if your tap water is around 220ppm or under.

Well that's because the cloth removes the contaminants. Same reason a chamoix leather is used on a car - prevents spotting. Squeegee blade does the same.

[SeanK]

For supposedly having more knowledge than me seank you can't seem to read and grasp the fact I have no links or ties to visions. I'm just a customer who buys it the same as everyone else. It wasn't "my product".

As you've had to resort to insults I think that says it all, and I'm going to leave it there! Enjoy your Saturday night!

 

Your where one of the three founding members so to say you have no links or loyalties other than being a customer is nothing more than a lie.
Plus I don't consider saying somebody is talking rubbish to be an insult if I believe they are talking rubbish.

[SeanK]

No ones told me yet how rinse aid makes glassware spotless and shiny - anyone know? Is it because it's squeaky clean or is it coated in something?

The glass is clean, all the rinse aid does is reduce any spotting you will get the exact same shine if you wash the glass in water and dry it off properly with a cloth.
You don t even need it if your tap water is around 220ppm or under.

Well that's because the cloth removes the contaminants. Same reason a chamoix leather is used on a car - prevents spotting. Squeegee blade does the same.

Exactly, the same contaminants that we remove when purifying the water.

[kevincoggan]

For supposedly having more knowledge than me seank you can't seem to read and grasp the fact I have no links or ties to visions. I'm just a customer who buys it the same as everyone else. It wasn't "my product".

As you've had to resort to insults I think that says it all, and I'm going to leave it there! Enjoy your Saturday night!

 

i think the earth is  still flat in seans world jonny,its entertaining though

[jk999]

I wonder if he stands outside bnq slagging off karcher  Vacs

[SeanK]

For supposedly having more knowledge than me seank you can't seem to read and grasp the fact I have no links or ties to visions. I'm just a customer who buys it the same as everyone else. It wasn't "my product".

As you've had to resort to insults I think that says it all, and I'm going to leave it there! Enjoy your Saturday night!

 

i think the earth is  still flat in seans world jonny,its entertaining though

It would certainly be easier to believe the world is flat compared to some of the claims about Vision, its only a matter of
time before somebody says if you rub it on your boot soles you can walk on water.

[Tadgh O Shea]

The only way to add shine to a sun/ weather damaged frames is to remove the damaged material by either polishing it off or
coating over it.
So if additives are leaving a better shine then they are either turning the water into a rubbing/ polishing compound or leaving a coating.
This is simple stuff and shouldn't be fooling guys who do this for a living.

  For example upvc frames have added as an additive during manufacture tio2 titanium dioxide which helps to protect them against damage from sun/weather, because of this some upvc window and door manufacturers will offer a 25 year guarantee on their oem products. these same manufacturers will also recommend that harsh and aggressive cleaning chemicals should not be used when cleaning these type surfaces. upvc when new is bright shiny and has a lovely sheen to it, i damaged a huge amount of these surfaces myself over many years until i realized how corrosive the ingredients were in the cleaning  chemicals i was using. my point being its safer all round to ask your supplier for cleaning chemicals which are non-caustic non-corrosive and safe for use on pvc/upvc surfaces and that won't affect their shine.

tio2 is a whitening agent used in many cosmetics/toothpastes etc,yes its used in pvcu manufacturing only because we preferer whiter than white in the uk,there are around 47 shades of pvc window extrusions across the european market-for instance the germans and belgians prefer a more creamy white to us brits-hence the more ti02 added to the extrusions produced in the uk,rehau-a german product produced in wales for us brits is more white than say kommerling  which is slightly blueish in tint,compare that to spectus which is british and they are shades apart.
ti02 is not a protective agent it is a whitening  compound added to the product to give the required shade of white to which they require for a given hemisphere,

Hi Kevin, Yes tio2 is also used in many products for its whitening properties, manufacturers of upvc windows and doors also add tio2 during production because its known to provide good UV protection by reflecting and/or scattering most of the suns UV-rays through its high refractive index. Again its the use of caustic and corrosive ingredients used to make harsh and aggressive cleaning chemicals cause most damage to upvc surfaces, i am not saying that Vision  will cause any damage to upvc surfaces as i have never seen the sds so don't know what it's derived from but from the high dilution rates the lads recommend i could not see it having any detrimental effect on upvc, but i think you probably know the types of caustic and corrosive cleaning chemicals which do cause detrimental damage to upvc frames and doors. Tadgh

[kevincoggan]

hi tadgh,we understand each other now i think ,vision whether its the new version or the old one has nothing in there which will cause any problems to either the framework nor the dgu's,

[Tadgh O Shea]

Hi Kevin,  yes one of the great things about this forum is that we can all learn from each others knowledge and experiences and then share them with others for their benefit. Tadgh

[keyser soze]

nice debate .keep making the stuff vision , i love it, i wouldn't want to go back to using just pure anymore. is seank donald trump in disguise ?

[keyser soze]

that reminds me, i need to order some more .

[CleanClear]

I've had a thought, ok i know thats dangerous !!    But what Dave said about the clear finish on dishes /glasses got me thinking. I havn't got a dishwasher, i do mine in the sink and my glasses still come out perfect.

When i looked on Google at what it actually means/ does when the water tension breaks down well you can see the difference by dropping a paperclip in a glass of water. Plain water the clip floats, water with something in it to break the surface tension and the clip sinks . Apply that to dirt instead of a paperclip ?  I know most of the dirt we take off is water soluble but how would less water tension affect that ?

I'm gonna try adding a bit to some plain old tap water and see the results. We might all be conned into buying RO's that we don't need ?