[CleanClear]

Probably like many i've been intrigued by the many posts here about adding stuff to your water. Yeah i'm talking about Vision, but also as others have said GG3/4 . And i've fancied it and never before got around to trying it.
 Before i go on, like many of us here when i first got into WFP and pure water we where "sold" on the idea pure water was a great cleaner, used on micro chips and in the aviation industy etc... It would leech all the deposits it came into contact with etc.  Infact it was so great a cleaner you had to really protect your van floor or the acidic nature of pure water would eat it away!! Thats never stopped us squirting it all over commercial premises with aluminium window frames and metal cladding.........but leave that for another day 

 When i think back, the main ones promoting this type of "theory" where the instigators of the WFP system. So its no suprise they sing its praises. In actual fact when you read though this forum you will see plenty asking for "that little bit extra", or really a lot more extra to clean really dirty stuff and  thats where Virosol, UBIK, and that Autosmart product i use (can't think of its name right now), oh yeah G101  come into their own.

Anyway i squirted a bit of that B&Q window cleaner in my tank today, totally reckless. I think its called H&G window cleaner. Seems its produced the same results they all say about the other stuff. Foaming and bubbles, a faint sort of smell, a perception its actually cleaning. Done my customers today, and done my own and neighbours. All seems fine. MIght be in my own head but seemed smoother and gluided better even on leaded windows. Doing some tests tomorrow on some problem windows i have so keep you posted. So far i'm keen on the idea, i've never really been sold on pure water alone for cleaning.

[Smudger]

Nice post, and you raise some interesting observations, but I fear the thread will be doomed to become another slanging match...☹

Darran

[Smurf]

Ultrapure water and the water used for wfp window cleaning is totaly different https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrapure_water

Simply by adding heat to cold ro/di purified water I've found really helps but still sometimes a chem boost is also required depending what I'm cleaning.

As the saying goes "you would not wash filthy baked on/ greasy dishes in just cold water now would you unless your a muppet"

[dazmond]

hot pure water and vision works well for me and a good brush with a high flow.use an xtreme pole as well and you have a very quick and effective window cleaning tool!

[CleanClear]

As the saying goes "you would not wash filthy baked on/ greasy dishes in just cold water now would you unless your a muppet"

Smurf, i agree with this statement. However taken in a window cleaning context it doesn't make sense, it just doesn't compute. I'll tell you why..........

Assuming you have a new clean window, then the only dirt that is accumulating on it is airborne dirt. Of course i'll leave out the example of egg or some other fouling for now as i assume we are just talking about generally keeping a window clean.

Grease does not fly though the air. Just carbon, pollen, dust etc..that all comes off not just due to pure water, but due to you scrubbing it off and allowing it to flow down in your water.

Hot or warm water does have its uses, i.e softening a bird deposit quicker than a cold water soak. But thats not what i'm generally talking about.

[SeanK]

Ultrapure water this sort of says it all, what we use is filtered water nothing else and the only reason its filtered is so that
it doesn't leave the removed solids on the glass.
It doesn't clean any better or do anything that unfiltered water couldn't do.
Heres a question CleanClear, How do filter tap water at 300ppm without boiling it or using any filtering equipment ?
Answer, pour a litre of it into a 600litre tank of 000ppm pure.
You see the dissolved solids in the water are still there but have been diluted to level where they no longer cause a problem.
The same can be said about the solution you added to your water, its still there but its now diluted to a level where its not going to make any  difference to the cleaning power.
When you mix your HG window cleaner at the correct levels to water what you actually do is turn the water into a cleaning
solution, that's what a concentrate is designed to do.

[SeanK]

I think a lot of them pure water urban myths (acid water and so on) are still believed by some that's why they spend a small fortune trying to protect their van floors.

[Smurf]

Me being green when changing over to the magic of purified water one of my first jobs was a house next to a busy road that had not been cleaned for years. No problem I thought... yeah right. 

Anyway after one complaint and two visits try to get them clean with my magic water the owner done them themselves in the end the old school way by ladders, mop & squeege   

[CleanClear]

Ultrapure water this sort of says it all, what we use is filtered water nothing else and the only reason its filtered is so that
it doesn't leave the removed solids on the glass.
It doesn't clean any better or do anything that unfiltered water couldn't do.
Heres a question CleanClear, How do filter tap water at 300ppm without boiling it or using any filtering equipment ?
Answer, pour a litre of it into a 600litre tank of 000ppm pure.
You see the dissolved solids in the water are still there but have been diluted to level where they no longer cause a problem.
The same can be said about the solution you added to your water, its still there but its now diluted to a level where its not going to make any  difference to the cleaning power.
When you mix your HG window cleaner at the correct levels to water what you actually do is turn the water into a cleaning
solution, that's what a concentrate is designed to do.

Hi Sean, i'm a little confused understanding your post (its probably just me). I agree tossing a litre of unpurified water into a tank of pure will make little to no difference. If i've got you right then you say tossing a few milliliters of cleaning solution in a large tank like 400/600 litres will make no difference to its cleaning ability ? I'd of thought the same. I'm also suprised at how it bubbles and froths i wouldn't expect it to do that either. I done no measuring at all, i just squirted a squirt  Like what you'd do for your dishes in a 350 litre tank. Wether it cleans any better i've no idea. But what is clear is that it cleans at least the same and seems smoother.

If it can produce so many bubbles at such a low concentration, what other effects can it bring that you might not see straight way? Like the surfactant effect whereby the water retreats and "dries out" away from edges and seals ? Who knows? Thats what i'm gonna try this week.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Probably like many i've been intrigued by the many posts here about adding stuff to your water. Yeah i'm talking about Vision, but also as others have said GG3/4 . And i've fancied it and never before got around to trying it.
 Before i go on, like many of us here when i first got into WFP and pure water we where "sold" on the idea pure water was a great cleaner, used on micro chips and in the aviation industy etc... It would leech all the deposits it came into contact with etc.  Infact it was so great a cleaner you had to really protect your van floor or the acidic nature of pure water would eat it away!! Thats never stopped us squirting it all over commercial premises with aluminium window frames and metal cladding.........but leave that for another day 

 When i think back, the main ones promoting this type of "theory" where the instigators of the WFP system. So its no suprise they sing its praises. In actual fact when you read though this forum you will see plenty asking for "that little bit extra", or really a lot more extra to clean really dirty stuff and  thats where Virosol, UBIK, and that Autosmart product i use (can't think of its name right now), oh yeah G101  come into their own.

Anyway i squirted a bit of that B&Q window cleaner in my tank today, totally reckless. I think its called H&G window cleaner. Seems its produced the same results they all say about the other stuff. Foaming and bubbles, a faint sort of smell, a perception its actually cleaning. Done my customers today, and done my own and neighbours. All seems fine. MIght be in my own head but seemed smoother and gluided better even on leaded windows. Doing some tests tomorrow on some problem windows i have so keep you posted. So far i'm keen on the idea, i've never really been sold on pure water alone for cleaning.

Yes a great post CleanClear, there are different factors that can cause for example window seals to wear and become frayed. Age,Temperature,water,condensation, can contribute to the deterioration of window seals, (using purified water on an ongoing basis can speed up the deterioration of window seals.)
Another factor which dose not help is the use of harsh and aggressive cleaning chemicals which over time cause them to crack and become more frayed. When this happens overtime it leads to rubber residues leeching out from the seals when they are being cleaned which can lead to lousy results.
I am not trying to put the frighteners on here but would like to share from many years experience that to err on the side of caution if you need to use cleaning chemicals for first cleans or deep cleans its safer to use cleaning chemicals which are non-caustic and non-corrosive, i have said it many times on this forum that there are plenty of janitorial suppliers in the UK who can guide on the use of safe and effective cleaning chemicals. Tadgh

[Rich Wilts]

Does adding Vision to your water mean it stops treating the floor of your van like it's sulphuric acid?

[CleanClear]

Probably like many i've been intrigued by the many posts here about adding stuff to your water. Yeah i'm talking about Vision, but also as others have said GG3/4 . And i've fancied it and never before got around to trying it.
 Before i go on, like many of us here when i first got into WFP and pure water we where "sold" on the idea pure water was a great cleaner, used on micro chips and in the aviation industy etc... It would leech all the deposits it came into contact with etc.  Infact it was so great a cleaner you had to really protect your van floor or the acidic nature of pure water would eat it away!! Thats never stopped us squirting it all over commercial premises with aluminium window frames and metal cladding.........but leave that for another day 

 When i think back, the main ones promoting this type of "theory" where the instigators of the WFP system. So its no suprise they sing its praises. In actual fact when you read though this forum you will see plenty asking for "that little bit extra", or really a lot more extra to clean really dirty stuff and  thats where Virosol, UBIK, and that Autosmart product i use (can't think of its name right now), oh yeah G101  come into their own.

Anyway i squirted a bit of that B&Q window cleaner in my tank today, totally reckless. I think its called H&G window cleaner. Seems its produced the same results they all say about the other stuff. Foaming and bubbles, a faint sort of smell, a perception its actually cleaning. Done my customers today, and done my own and neighbours. All seems fine. MIght be in my own head but seemed smoother and gluided better even on leaded windows. Doing some tests tomorrow on some problem windows i have so keep you posted. So far i'm keen on the idea, i've never really been sold on pure water alone for cleaning.

Yes a great post CleanClear, there are different factors that can cause window seals to wear and become frayed. Age,Temperature,water,condensation, can contribute to the deterioration of window seals, (using purified water on an ongoing basis can speed up the deterioration of window seals.)
Another factor which dose not help is the use of harsh and aggressive cleaning chemicals which over time cause them to crack and become more frayed. When this happens overtime it leads to rubber residues leeching out from the seals when they are being cleaned which can lead to lousy results.
I am not trying to put the frighteners on here but would like to share from many years experience that to err on the side of caution if you need to use cleaning chemicals for first cleans or deep cleans it safer to use cleaning chemicals which are non-caustic and non-corrosive, i have said it plenty of times on this forum that there are many janitorial suppliers in the UK who can guide on the use of safe and effective cleaning chemicals. Tadgh

Hi Tadgh, i'm gonna disagree and agree !!  I disagree that cleaning windows with purified water will deteriorate seals any quicker than cleaning with ordinary water. That point has been done to death over the years here, and it was sealed (pardon the pun ) with manufacturers saying that WFP is not detrimental in any way. There's been numerous links posted here (i may go try find one) from manufacturers associations to say so.

 As regards chems, yes i'd agree they come at a cost (to what you're working on ). I assume you're relating to Virosol, Ubik, G101 and not the few milliliters of HG i put in the water ?

To go further though, i'm into my 6th/7th year using WFP . What i'm now seeing, and i'm sure i never seen it before is algae and moss growth. I see it inbetween the seal and trim, the trim and the actal frame. This is on regular monthly work i done for years, i scrub it like new and it looks great. I return and its all back again. I attribute this to the fact there is no chems residing in the water/moisture to inhibit growth. Clean water and airborne pollutants seems to be a factor in algae/moss growth ? If they where not we'd never get moss on a roof.

[CleanClear]

Does adding Vision to your water mean it stops treating the floor of your van like it's sulphuric acid?

Just think "foam Party , night club, slippy when wet" and you'll not be far off the mark 

[Smurf]

So say purified ro/di water is no more harmful to a van floor than normal tap water.
However the likes of hypo will eat away metal so that is why yanks spend a fortune on the beds of their softwashing truck or use trailers instead

[CleanClear]

So say purified ro/di water is no more harmful to a van floor than normal tap water.
However the likes of hypo will eat away metal so that is why yanks spend a fortune on the beds of their softwashing truck or use trailers instead

Smurf, never use yanks as a yardstick for intelligence.    Even us thick scousers keep it in tubs instead of spreading it about the van floor.

And aside from that you do know there are two types of hypo right ? The volatile stuff (i can't recollect the correct word) that evaporates after time, and has to be stored in dark containers away from air and light and the non volatile stuff that just is what it is. Its the volatile stuff that goes in swimming pools for shock treatment, and thats the one we use 

[Tadgh O Shea]

Probably like many i've been intrigued by the many posts here about adding stuff to your water. Yeah i'm talking about Vision, but also as others have said GG3/4 . And i've fancied it and never before got around to trying it.
 Before i go on, like many of us here when i first got into WFP and pure water we where "sold" on the idea pure water was a great cleaner, used on micro chips and in the aviation industy etc... It would leech all the deposits it came into contact with etc.  Infact it was so great a cleaner you had to really protect your van floor or the acidic nature of pure water would eat it away!! Thats never stopped us squirting it all over commercial premises with aluminium window frames and metal cladding.........but leave that for another day 

 When i think back, the main ones promoting this type of "theory" where the instigators of the WFP system. So its no suprise they sing its praises. In actual fact when you read though this forum you will see plenty asking for "that little bit extra", or really a lot more extra to clean really dirty stuff and  thats where Virosol, UBIK, and that Autosmart product i use (can't think of its name right now), oh yeah G101  come into their own.

Anyway i squirted a bit of that B&Q window cleaner in my tank today, totally reckless. I think its called H&G window cleaner. Seems its produced the same results they all say about the other stuff. Foaming and bubbles, a faint sort of smell, a perception its actually cleaning. Done my customers today, and done my own and neighbours. All seems fine. MIght be in my own head but seemed smoother and gluided better even on leaded windows. Doing some tests tomorrow on some problem windows i have so keep you posted. So far i'm keen on the idea, i've never really been sold on pure water alone for cleaning.

Yes a great post CleanClear, there are different factors that can cause window seals to wear and become frayed. Age,Temperature,water,condensation, can contribute to the deterioration of window seals, (using purified water on an ongoing basis can speed up the deterioration of window seals.)
Another factor which dose not help is the use of harsh and aggressive cleaning chemicals which over time cause them to crack and become more frayed. When this happens overtime it leads to rubber residues leeching out from the seals when they are being cleaned which can lead to lousy results.
I am not trying to put the frighteners on here but would like to share from many years experience that to err on the side of caution if you need to use cleaning chemicals for first cleans or deep cleans it safer to use cleaning chemicals which are non-caustic and non-corrosive, i have said it plenty of times on this forum that there are many janitorial suppliers in the UK who can guide on the use of safe and effective cleaning chemicals. Tadgh

Hi Tadgh, i'm gonna disagree and agree !!  I disagree that cleaning windows with purified water will deteriorate seals any quicker than cleaning with ordinary water. That point has been done to death over the years here, and it was sealed (pardon the pun ) with manufacturers saying that WFP is not detrimental in any way. There's been numerous links posted here (i may go try find one) from manufacturers associations to say so.

 As regards chems, yes i'd agree they come at a cost (to what you're working on ). I assume you're relating to Virosol, Ubik, G101 and not the few milliliters of HG i put in the water ?

To go further though, i'm into my 6th/7th year using WFP . What i'm now seeing, and i'm sure i never seen it before is algae and moss growth. I see it inbetween the seal and trim, the trim and the actal frame. This is on regular monthly work i done for years, i scrub it like new and it looks great. I return and its all back again. I attribute this to the fact there is no chems residing in the water/moisture to inhibit growth. Clean water and airborne pollutants seems to be a factor in algae/moss growth ? If they where not we'd never get moss on a roof.

I have learned many years ago now not to trust the manufacturers of cleaning chemicals as i was caught up in their bullpoop for long enough, many people say DI water is so clean that it is hungry and aggressive, yes of course manufacturers will disagree with this but you gotta ask yourself who is telling the truth.

[CleanClear]

I have learned many years ago now not to trust the manufacturers of cleaning chemicals as i was caught up in their bullpoop for long enough, many people say DI water is so clean that it is hungry and aggressive, yes of course manufacturers will disagree with this but you gotta ask yourself who is telling the truth.

Well i make my own DI water and i know it "aint all that ". No ones sold me HG window cleaner from B&Q, i'm just investigating !! 

[Smurf]

If you have ever tried washing yer filthy van with just wfp and di water you will know how crap it really is on its own 

[Tadgh O Shea]

I have learned many years ago now not to trust the manufacturers of cleaning chemicals as i was caught up in their bullpoop for long enough, many people say DI water is so clean that it is hungry and aggressive, yes of course manufacturers will disagree with this but you gotta ask yourself who is telling the truth.

Well i make my own DI water and i know it "aint all that ". No ones sold me HG window cleaner from B&Q, i'm just investigating !! 

Yes i know where you are coming from, its the other 3 products you mentioned i would be more wary of.

[paulben]

Sean you say a little drop of detergent diluted down wont make any difference . When I started trad 11 years ago used to give fairy liquid a good squirt in bucket suds all day . Now I put 1.6 ml of my favorite  chem in 5 litres of water ( in a very hard water area ). Work out the dilution rate so a little can make a difference therefore a little in pure water does make work easier .