[dazmond]

using vision in my water defo improves the finish on windows.the proof is when the window is dry.yesterday i was cleaning a property next to one id cleaned the day before and the shine was really unbelievable!it adds extra satisfaction and pride in my work.customers happy,im happy and i get paid.

when scrubbing and rinsing it adds a "gloss" to the water and it feels so much better than just using pure water.add heat and the steam coming off my brush and it looks good.both to me and the customer.

[dave f]

why bother a custy will drop you for a cheaper quote no matter how clean you think it is    I know ive had it done to me only yesterday  3 bed semi  frames mining window over conni not cleaned in years .along comes   another  window washer bingo phone call ive got some one cheaper I will no longer need your service .wtf I'm one of the cheaper windys round by far near me or so I thought.

[paulben]

better off without customers like that most of mine are loyal you ask why bother if someone wants a window cleaner and there are 2 cleaners both clean to same level but one leaves windows extra shiney guess which one will get job

[SeanK]

better off without customers like that most of mine are loyal you ask why bother if someone wants a window cleaner and there are 2 cleaners both clean to same level but one leaves windows extra shiney guess which one will get job

They are only shinier in your own head mate, if not then it would be impossible for us to compete with a good traditional
cleaner as they are using the solutions in a more concentrated mix.

[paulben]

Sorry to disagree Sean I do both trad and wfp you don't need as much chem in wfp as there are less impurities than in tap water

[dazmond]

why bother a custy will drop you for a cheaper quote no matter how clean you think it is    I know ive had it done to me only yesterday  3 bed semi  frames mining window over conni not cleaned in years .along comes   another  window washer bingo phone call ive got some one cheaper I will no longer need your service .wtf I'm one of the cheaper windys round by far near me or so I thought.

this happens very rarely though mate.some of my customers ive had for over 20 years!

i lose the odd one or two every year to cheaper window cleaners but it has zero effect on my earnings as i always pick up more jobs(usually at slightly higher prices too)so its a win win.

[Dave Willis]

I often wonder how rinse aid works so well - we add it to tap water of 300tds in our house, at very small dilution rates, the glassware comes out spotless and shiny and it's obviously pretty safe as we all drink and eat off the utensils afterwards and pump the excess chemicals down the drain.

[SeanK]

Ultrapure water this sort of says it all, what we use is filtered water nothing else and the only reason its filtered is so that
it doesn't leave the removed solids on the glass.
It doesn't clean any better or do anything that unfiltered water couldn't do.
Heres a question CleanClear, How do filter tap water at 300ppm without boiling it or using any filtering equipment ?
Answer, pour a litre of it into a 600litre tank of 000ppm pure.
You see the dissolved solids in the water are still there but have been diluted to level where they no longer cause a problem.
The same can be said about the solution you added to your water, its still there but its now diluted to a level where its not going to make any  difference to the cleaning power.
When you mix your HG window cleaner at the correct levels to water what you actually do is turn the water into a cleaning
solution, that's what a concentrate is designed to do.

Hi Sean, i'm a little confused understanding your post (its probably just me). I agree tossing a litre of unpurified water into a tank of pure will make little to no difference. If i've got you right then you say tossing a few milliliters of cleaning solution in a large tank like 400/600 litres will make no difference to its cleaning ability ? I'd of thought the same. I'm also suprised at how it bubbles and froths i wouldn't expect it to do that either. I done no measuring at all, i just squirted a squirt  Like what you'd do for your dishes in a 350 litre tank. Wether it cleans any better i've no idea. But what is clear is that it cleans at least the same and seems smoother.

If it can produce so many bubbles at such a low concentration, what other effects can it bring that you might not see straight way? Like the surfactant effect whereby the water retreats and "dries out" away from edges and seals ? Who knows? Thats what i'm gonna try this week.

The point is just to show how little of the stuff your actually putting in the water, the thing is it doesn't matter how many
bubbles you get it still only a cleaning solution in a very weak mix.
Take some out of your tank trad with it and see if you find any difference to it and water on its own.
Take GG4 for example, it doesn't even restore the shine on upvc in its recommended mix and that's with it leaving a slight
coating still on the frames.
You talk about glide, well if you want more glide then use an Xtreme brush you see that's the thing more glide means less grip
scrubbing power.

[Dave Willis]

You don't get it do you Sean? 

People are finding a difference.

[SeanK]

You don't get it do you Sean? 

People are finding a difference.

I do get it Dave I just cant figure out how its happening, I'm getting the same results and don't put anything in my water
so somebody must be putting it in without my knowing.

[SeanK]

You don't get it do you Sean? 

People are finding a difference.

There are also people finding a difference when using parts per billion systems, it takes all sorts mate.

[Dave Willis]

If pure water alone was that good a cleaning solvent (it isn't) then I'd plumb my ro directly into the household supply. That way we'd never need to buy another bottle of shampoo, bar of soap, bottles of shower gel or any cleaning products ever again.
It's just clean water - that's all it is.

A good example of how poor it is - clean your dirty van with pure - use your best brush, give it a good scrub then when it's dry see how much your super brush has missed - it's crap! I wonder why we wash cars with soaps and detergents? Why do we use soap for washing? Why do we use detergents for laundery?

[SeanK]

If pure water alone was that good a cleaning solvent (it isn't) then I'd plumb my ro directly into the household supply. That way we'd never need to buy another bottle of shampoo, bar of soap, bottles of shower gel or any cleaning products ever again.
It's just clean water - that's all it is.

A good example of how poor it is - clean your dirty van with pure - use your best brush, give it a good scrub then when it's dry see how much your super brush has missed - it's crap! I wonder why we wash cars with soaps and detergents? Why do we use soap for washing? Why do we use detergents for laundery?

Again your talking nonsense I clean my van regular with a brush and tap water and its cleans it to perfection, I also worked
with a guy back in my sheet metalwork days who only washed with water as he was allergic to most cleaning products and
a cleaner guy you never met.
We are all programmed to associate suds with better cleaning that's why a lot of the products you mention are actually more
soapy than they need to be, you just need to look at how they are advertised to see that.
The fact is there many people all around the planet who clean/ wash with  nothing more than water and it more than does the job.

[SeanK]

By the way guys I wouldn't recommend some of the newer window cleaning brushes for your car or van the
Vikan or even the Brodex are what is needed for a decent job, in other words a tight bristled brush.

[SeanK]

Window cleaning you cant help but laugh, in what other profession would guys start using a product and then go
hunting for problems to justify its use.

[gregmyster]

just wondering as I have never added anythink to purified water do you just clean and rinse as normal, as you aren't really cleaning with purified water anymore does it not leave spots or streaks behind when it dries.

[SeanK]

just wondering as I have never added anythink to purified water do you just clean and rinse as normal, as you aren't really cleaning with purified water anymore does it not leave spots or streaks behind when it dries.

As long as you don't add too much then it wont spot or cause streaks, but it wont stop spotting or streaks if your already
getting them.
As long as the product your using has no tds reading when concentrated or if it has less than one part per million in the water when diluted then it wont show up on your meter or the glass.
So yes you just scrub and rinse as normal and as it has no tds reading then technically your still cleaning with pure.

[dave f]

any one who thinks putting an adative  in to the water to try make frames, windows  super dupa clean .and think they have a customer for life they are deluded get a life. I bet the trad guys are psing them selves , me included

[Dave Willis]

Aren't you the guy who used to put isopropanol in his tank     

[dave f]

who . not me  I'm to tight to put owt in my tank MATEY