[NBwcs]

I had a slight accident with my own flat roof about a week ago and ended up putting my foot through it. The worrying part about it is that my flat roof really doesnt show any more signs of wear and tear than any of my customers that i walk over which means its a bit of a lottery as  to whether im going to damage them or not  .  Turns out my home insurance company doesnt want to know, and apparently thats pretty much standard ie that flat roofs are not covered unless specifically added to peoples policy (at an extra cost) which begs the question, what would happen if i go through a custys roof who most likely isnt covered for damage? I  am insured workwise with "gleaming" but have no idea if they would cough up in the event of a claim, my experience of public liabilty insurance leaves me very sceptical of insurances companys period, Ive been with several over the years who it turns out incredibly dont insure you for the property your working on !!!!  I have about 20 propertys i presenty climb over flat roofs on, and am looking at them individually with fresh eyes with a view to poleing off stepladders but have previously not taken this option as frankly its a real pain , quite literally in the neck and shoulders. It will leave me with about 10 which i have no option with  and will have to either carry on gaining access over flat roof or dump which would be  shame as some of these have been with me since the year dot and some are decent priced jobs. So has anyone had any bad experiences with flat roofs and does anyone know legally what the repercusions are if you damage one. Are we liable to repair costs or is the customer liable as its their responibility to make sure roof is safe for us to walk on?

[Tom-01]

That's a very good point Nick.

The guy who works for me used to be a roofer and he mentioned this just the other day, he said a roof can look sound but you never know.. Just like what happened to you.

We have 3 that we have to climb over.

Perhaps one way to get peace of mind is to have some sort of waiver? Like a scratched glass waiver?

At least then they can make the choice of you going over the roof or not.

Tom

[Clever Forum Name]

Large scaffold board to spread the weight.

I do all my walk overs on one day and use that. Sometimes i forget though.

[andyM]

Yeah it's a difficult one.
If you're unsure of the condition of a flat roof I reckon you're better off walking close to the edge as the load bearing wall and wall plate  will be supporting most of your weight.

[Nick Day]

If the customer knows you use that roof for access, and have acknowledged that, Then they are responsible.

[dazmond]

if your unsure then dont climb over.just clean the fronts or go through their garage if their in.

all my up and over jobs i passed on to another windy or i just clean fronts only(unless they open the garage).

i only have 4 or 5 jobs where i have to get on a flat roof to clean some windows or glass roof now and there not "up and overs".

if you damage a customers roof by falling through its their problem.its got nothing to do with you as its obvious the roof isnt fit for purpose and its the CUSTOMERS RESPONSIBILITY to get it fixed.

[CleanClear]

If the customer knows you use that roof for access, and have acknowledged that, Then they are responsible.

In this case who do you believe the customer would be responsible to Nick ?

[Smurf]

Other options to consider when conducting risk assessments on properties is to just leave the window/s out that you can't reach with a wfp from the ground. Alternatively if can be cleaned from the inside safely arrange to do so. Either way eliminates the risks of using ladders and walking on flat roofs altogether.

[Smurf]

I know of more than one cleaner that went through a flat roof and had to cough up for the repair regardless of their injury so makes you think don't it.
 

[Dave Willis]

My Mrs is always going through the roof. Don't worry about it.

[dazmond]

I know of more than one cleaner that went through a flat roof and had to cough up for the repair regardless of their injury so makes you think don't it.

when i first started out i put both feet through a flat roof and my feet were dangling through the kitchen ceiling right through the plaster! ;Dshe wasnt best pleased!

the roof was absolutely rotten!he came over the next day and said "we need to claim on your insurance!"

i said what insurance?(i didnt have any back then in 1993!)i said your having a laugh mate!you d better go inside now before you get hurt!(i was quite scary in those days!)

his wife STILL BLANKS ME NOW 23 YEARS ON!and has never asked me back to clean her windows since!(i clean 90+ houses on her estate!) and see her nearly every month.

i shouldnt of climbed on the roof in the first place as it was sagging more than a hammock!but i was young and foolish back then.

[Smurf]

I know of more than one cleaner that went through a flat roof and had to cough up for the repair regardless of their injury so makes you think don't it.

when i first started out i put both feet through a flat roof and my feet were dangling through the kitchen ceiling right through the plaster! ;Dshe wasnt best pleased!

the roof was absolutely rotten!he came over the next day and said "we need to claim on your insurance!"

i said what insurance?(i didnt have any back then in 1993!)i said your having a laugh mate!you d better go inside now before you get hurt!(i was quite scary in those days!)

his wife STILL BLANKS ME NOW 23 YEARS ON!and has never asked me back to clean her windows since!(i clean 90+ houses on her estate!) and see her nearly every month.

i shouldnt of climbed on the roof in the first place as it was sagging more than a hammock!but i was young and foolish back then.

Classic 

[CleanClear]

I'm pretty certain that no Insurance Company at all would pay out for anyone going through a flat roof.
HSE guidelines are that the roof should be certified as safe by a "competent person ". I wouldn't agree that an average householder saying "yeah the roofs fine to walk on" fits that bill. It also goes on to say that without that competent assesment any flat roof to be walked on should be treated as a Fragile roof.  So, nets/boards/harness etc.....  as a minimum.Thats without even getting into the whole getting on off the thing with a ladder, unless its secured scenario.

But it also seems commonsense that if the roof fails through someone walking on it, then its obviously knackered or not fit for that purpose. Thats why i couldn't see any insurance paying out as its not accidental damage. Obviously for a sole trader working on his own some of these issues are maybe less important. They're vital things to consider though if sending an employee up and over.

[Walter Mitty]

my experience of public liabilty insurance leaves me very sceptical of insurances companys period, Ive been with several over the years who it turns out incredibly dont insure you for the property your working on !!!!

Don't take my word for the following and do check with your insurer.  I believe that the bit I've quoted from your post is a common misunderstanding.
The word "property" in this case refers to the window being worked upon.  This is because "property" can mean the building where you are working or it can refer to "a piece of property" e.g. like someone's hat or coat or, in this case, someone's window.  In insurance jargon, I believe that the latter meaning applies.
As I saay, chewck this with the insurer if you are uncomfortable about it.
It wouldn't surprise me if insurers intentionally confuse the issue with this so that businesses pay more to take out a higher grade insurance policy.
Personally, I do pay for covering the "property" being worked upon.  It costs me extra but some of those large industrial panels would be expensive to replace.  As there is more likelihood of making a claim, the excess tends to be higher.
I would appreciate some input from others in case I've misunderstood the issues.

[Walter Mitty]

In addition to my previous post, I stuck my foot through the decking on a flat roof around 1997 (I remember the date because other things were going on at the time).  Their house insurance coughed up and no-one troubled me or my insurer.  However, that was 18 years ago and insurers generally have tightened up on payouts since then.

[CleanClear]

As you say it would depend upon the exact wording in the Policy. I do know people who have tried to claim ordinary roof repairs and had them declined as "wear and tear"/ failed to maintain etc.. even when it was claimed storm damage etc...

[NBwcs]

Thanks for your imput lads, the more i think about it, the less i want to go on flat roofs. For those i cant reach by pole or have skylights , i'll be having a chat with the custy to see what can be sorted but think the sensible thing for me to do is have a self imposed ban. At 6 ft 3" and 17stone im no ballerina, the alarm bells are well and truely ringing, time to stop.

[JackieW]

To get on the flat roof I'd need a ladder.

I don't carry one so no flat roof.

[dave f]

ive always told a prospective custy that  I dont walk on flat roofs and just put the fear of god in them just say you would not like to find me sparko in the room when you come home not to mention all the damage etc  all the ones with flat roofs have agreed  I use a ladder on awkward ones from the side where possible.

[Smurf]

To get on the flat roof I'd need a ladder.

I don't carry one so no flat roof.

That's a great ladder minimisation policy for sure...Sorry I don't use ladders at all.

 Fair play to you