[Clever Forum Name]

im still using the original vision(3 bottles bought last year).i put 4ml per 500L tank.it does make a difference.ive still got a full bottle left.

so the new stuff  do you have to put TWICE as much in your tank?

It makes no difference, what I have said above also applies to Vision, you cant dilute a product beyond what its possible to
dilute it and that's not an opinion its a fact.
80% of what your putting on the glass is nothing more than pure and the other 20% has minuscule amounts of whatever
it happens to be.
We can all have opinions on what cleaning product does what and which is better but you cant argue with the facts.
You have bought into a placebo nothing more and going by your remark about having to use double the concentration I think
deep down you know it.

If the results are only 20% better using vision then that's good enough for me..
I still don't know why you harp on about vision seank, if you don't like it then fine, p@ss off to another thread.
Even if it only has a placebo affect, so what. Placebos have been proven to be affective in the medicine world. If using vision gives some people more confidence in the job there doing and helps speed them up or whatever, then great.
Personally I use it because I know it does a better job then pure alone, it helps rinsing on certain types of glass, and the added placebo affect makes me think I'm the best feckin window cleaner in the universe.
Apologies for ranting, I'm buzzing today, must be something in the water..

Who said it makes you 20% better ? but totally agree there will certain people such as yourself where it might be of
some use but that doesn't take away from what it is, a bottle of nothing.

I already thought I was a great  window cleaner before vision.
Since using vision my confidence has gone so high, I get a hard on just looking at myself cleaning windows in the super shiny glass.

Post of the year I reakon. Taking bets now. LMAO

[dazmond]

using vision in your water defo improves the shine on glass and frames.its very noticeable.this is one of the reasons i keep using it.i also get less runs from top rubber seals.they are virtually eliminated with vision treated water.

[SeanK]

using vision in your water defo improves the shine on glass and frames.its very noticeable.this is one of the reasons i keep using it.i also get less runs from top rubber seals.they are virtually eliminated with vision treated water.

So would you advise newbies not to worry about leaving beads of water siting on dodgy rubber seals as long as they have
Vision in their water ?

[Rich Wilts]

using vision in your water defo improves the shine on glass and frames.its very noticeable.this is one of the reasons i keep using it.i also get less runs from top rubber seals.they are virtually eliminated with vision treated water.

You shouldn't be getting runs from top rubber seals Daz if you've either been cleaning those windows regularly or rinse adequately.

[Dave Willis]

SeanK - how could you have been so stupid to buy some if you already new the science?

[Dave Willis]

I think it's working so well because it's added to pure water. Anything we normally add to water for cleaning has to have a much higher dosage to overcome the tds of the tap water. So whatever Vision is whether it's a detergent, a soap or some dishwasher fluid from the pound shop it's altering the behaviour of our water because it's so pure. It's not a wonder cleaner by any means but I'd rather have it in my tank than not.

Another odd one is this microbiology b******s that's popped up and nano technology - it's just cleaning that's all. Try them, they aren't that wonderful. Have a look in my Mrs cupboard and see the marketing crap she's bought into. Different cleaning fluid for every appliance in the house.

[Smurf]

im still using the original vision(3 bottles bought last year).i put 4ml per 500L tank.it does make a difference.ive still got a full bottle left.

so the new stuff  do you have to put TWICE as much in your tank?

It makes no difference, what I have said above also applies to Vision, you cant dilute a product beyond what its possible to
dilute it and that's not an opinion its a fact.
80% of what your putting on the glass is nothing more than pure and the other 20% has minuscule amounts of whatever
it happens to be.
We can all have opinions on what cleaning product does what and which is better but you cant argue with the facts.
You have bought into a placebo nothing more and going by your remark about having to use double the concentration I think
deep down you know it.

If the results are only 20% better using vision then that's good enough for me..
I still don't know why you harp on about vision seank, if you don't like it then fine, p@ss off to another thread.
Even if it only has a placebo affect, so what. Placebos have been proven to be affective in the medicine world. If using vision gives some people more confidence in the job there doing and helps speed them up or whatever, then great.
Personally I use it because I know it does a better job then pure alone, it helps rinsing on certain types of glass, and the added placebo affect makes me think I'm the best feckin window cleaner in the universe.
Apologies for ranting, I'm buzzing today, must be something in the water..

Who said it makes you 20% better ? but totally agree there will certain people such as yourself where it might be of
some use but that doesn't take away from what it is, a bottle of nothing.

Prove it...
As much as I can't prove it produces better results, can you prove it does nothing?

Put it this way I would not advise anyone to drink the stuff nor drink the water after vision has been added to the tank.

[dazmond]

using vision in your water defo improves the shine on glass and frames.its very noticeable.this is one of the reasons i keep using it.i also get less runs from top rubber seals.they are virtually eliminated with vision treated water.

You shouldn't be getting runs from top rubber seals Daz if you've either been cleaning those windows regularly or rinse adequately.

we all have a few "problem" windows surely?some rubber seals just run even when you ve took the water off the seal with the brush and rinsed just under.i find with vision the water is slightly "gloopy" and it seems to prevent a lot of runs on these problem windows.i dont have many on my round but the ones i have are defo coming up better(these are upper windows).the really bad ground floor ones are easy to fix(i run a cloth along the top seal then rinse just under)

[kempy]

im still using the original vision(3 bottles bought last year).i put 4ml per 500L tank.it does make a difference.ive still got a full bottle left.

so the new stuff  do you have to put TWICE as much in your tank?

The VisionV2 is cheaper to buy as its going to be sold in a 300ml and 500ml bottle .
Dose at 1ml per 100 litres or up to 3ml per 100 litres
I dose a round 2ml

[NWH]

Some PVC Windows with these black seals are a nightmare at times,got a call back once they looked dreadful had to blade em then drop it.

[Clever Forum Name]

Dave you interested in trying an off the shelf product?

I am awaiting delivery

[Jonny 87]

im still using the original vision(3 bottles bought last year).i put 4ml per 500L tank.it does make a difference.ive still got a full bottle left.

so the new stuff  do you have to put TWICE as much in your tank?

It makes no difference, what I have said above also applies to Vision, you cant dilute a product beyond what its possible to
dilute it and that's not an opinion its a fact.
80% of what your putting on the glass is nothing more than pure and the other 20% has minuscule amounts of whatever
it happens to be.
We can all have opinions on what cleaning product does what and which is better but you cant argue with the facts.
You have bought into a placebo nothing more and going by your remark about having to use double the concentration I think
deep down you know it.

Sorry Sean but your wrong again, and everyone reading this can prove your wrong.

Take a tank of pure water, add vision (particularly the original vision) at a dilution rate of of 1 mill per 100 litres.

As soon as that water had made its way through your hose, you will see and feel the brush head glide on the glass more, and you will also see some "bubbling" on the glass. It will stay that way all day, until your tank is run dry.

According to your logic only for a very small part of the day would you be seeing the effects, which is wrong.

[Frankybadboy]

dave willis

you are a turn coat 

[paulben]

Dave you don't need a lot of " different fluids" with Nuclean as it can be used as a wfp additive in the bucket for trad and is the dogs dangly bits for cleaning plastic gutters etc so I only need to use one cleaning fluid .

[SeanK]

im still using the original vision(3 bottles bought last year).i put 4ml per 500L tank.it does make a difference.ive still got a full bottle left.

so the new stuff  do you have to put TWICE as much in your tank?

It makes no difference, what I have said above also applies to Vision, you cant dilute a product beyond what its possible to
dilute it and that's not an opinion its a fact.
80% of what your putting on the glass is nothing more than pure and the other 20% has minuscule amounts of whatever
it happens to be.
We can all have opinions on what cleaning product does what and which is better but you cant argue with the facts.
You have bought into a placebo nothing more and going by your remark about having to use double the concentration I think
deep down you know it.

Sorry Sean but your wrong again, and everyone reading this can prove your wrong.

Take a tank of pure water, add vision (particularly the original vision) at a dilution rate of of 1 mill per 100 litres.

As soon as that water had made its way through your hose, you will see and feel the brush head glide on the glass more, and you will also see some "bubbling" on the glass. It will stay that way all day, until your tank is run dry.

According to your logic only for a very small part of the day would you be seeing the effects, which is wrong.

There nothing wrong about it, I cant tell you what the true dilution rate of Vision is as I don't know the molar count but
GG4 has a dilution rate of 325 to 1, now unlike Vision that wont have been worked out by some guys trying it on glass it
will have been worked out by guys in a lab working out the molar count of the solution and matching it with the molar count of
water.
You can do the maths yourself but if add 6ml of GG4 to a 600lt tank then even if its mixed to perfection your only going to
get around 105lts of pure with GG4 diluted 325 times above its recommended amount and the rest will be pure.
The GG4 users get the same effect as Vision as do most solutions when used as additives ,my theory is because the additive
aerates the water when its at a stronger level and this causes the bubbles when pumped through the brush, its something
along these lines but its certainly nothing to do with a solution in the water.

[Jonny 87]

 

Your not fooling anyone Sean.
The tide has turned. It's just you and Bateman. Mayb you should start a club.

 

[Dave Willis]

Dave you interested in trying an off the shelf product?

I am awaiting delivery

Not if I'm the first 

[Dave Willis]

I've got a molar count of one ..... since they pulled the last tooth out.

[Smudger]

Gg4 dilution is 500 not 325 - just being helpful

Darran

[SeanK]

Your not fooling anyone Sean.
The tide has turned. It's just you and Bateman. Mayb you should start a club.

 

You never know, make me an official tester throw in a free bottle and a  t shirt and I could be your next promoter,
it worked on Dave Willis.