[nathankaye]

Gone from trad cleaning (14yrs experience) to wfp, 6 months ago.
Did best I could in research on techniques n equipment.  Those first cleans from trad to wfp, were killers!
Now 6mnths in. Water in tank is 000, using a gardiner brush. I aggitate 2/3 times and rinse plenty. Yet on the top windows which open, above main window. They still spot and I dont kno why? Any help n advice? I rinse from the rubber seal down, to cut into top line, is this the course of my problem?

[the king]

its because the water is driping from the opner u need to stop it driping down but turning off the water then swiping the brush across the bottom of the opner

https://www.facebook.com/lee.hunt.98434/videos/vb.100007560277337/1395246364070693/?type=2

https://www.facebook.com/lee.hunt.98434/videos/vb.100007560277337/1396294890632507/?type=2

not shore if u can watch these vids but this will give u an ider on how to stop runs@ spotting

[SeanK]

Is the spotting on the top window or on the glass below it ? if its on the top window is there a vent above it ?
As long as your scrubbing and rinsing enough and your water is ok you shouldn't be leaving spotting on any glass therefore
it has to be coming from somewhere after you have finished, from where is what you need to work out.

[Rich Wilts]

It could one of many things or a combination.

What type of brush are you using? Monofilament or flocked?

Are you rinsing on or off the glass?

Does it involve windows with opening vents or all windows?

Is it just downstairs windows or all windows? (when you say it's the top windows above the main window do you mean the  small opener on all windows or the one on the first floor?)

Its silly to suggest its just one thing without knowing more about your setup and how you work exactly.

[chris turner]

It's a strange one this because I have the same happen on my own top windows. It's only the small top windows that open upwards.
I was bored during my 2 weeks off at Xmas so gave my windows a really deep, thorough clean, yet still the small top windows had minor spotting.
Every other window was perfect.
Even after a reclean there was still minor spotting.
The only thing I could think was causing it were the dirty fascias which hang just just a few inches above the top window.
When cleaning its likely water droplets are spraying up onto the fascia causing the dirt to come loose and flake onto the window below.
My fascias are the brown type, I haven't cleaned them in 5 years lol, i don't even notice the dirt.

[Smurf]

Can I ask are you using a van mount or backpack/trolley and are you scrubbing and washing down the frames too not just the glass?

I was going to say are you checking them straight away after they dry or not. If not then one cause to get spotting and drip marks as mentioned is dirty water running down from the gutter line etc when it rains.

I’ve found the following what will cause spotting & drip marks when cleaning top openers and frames as follows:
1. Top frames not scrubbed & wash down properly to remove all dirt & oxidation
2. Top window vents getting wet inside and dripping dirty water onto the glass.
3. Rubber seals still leaching trapped old soap/dirt or seal bleed from the rubber itself
4. Water getting inside the frames themselves leaching dirty water out of the frame drainage holes.

If you’re on about spotting at the sides or the bottom of the glass again it's down technique as not scrubbing & rinsing down properly. The type of flow, brush, jets you use also plays a part too as some glass sheets so is easier to rinse down properly than the ones that run down in ribbons.

Once I had master wfp technique I soon found out on first cleans with filthy frames and glass just using pure water alone on a low flow rate took ages as needed at least 2 cleans whilst I was there to get them spot & drip mark free. That's when I decided to start using a high flow rate, fan jets, warm/hot water and a boost and now use vision x which has made first clean so much easier and quicker to do.  Also makes regular cleans a breeze too.

[SeanK]

Can I ask are you using a van mount or backpack/trolley?

I was going to say are you checking them straight away after they dry or not. If not then one cause to get spotting and drip marks as mentioned is dirty water running down from the gutter line etc when it rains.

I’ve found the following what will cause spotting & drip marks when cleaning top openers is as follows:
1. Top frames not scrubbed & wash down properly to remove all dirt & oxidation
2. Top window vents getting wet inside and dripping dirty water onto the glass.
3. Rubber seals still leaching trapped soap or seal bleed from the rubber itself
4. Water getting inside the frames themselves leaching dirty water out of the frame drainage holes.

If you’re on about spotting at the sides or the bottom of the glass again it's down technique as not scrubbing & rinsing down properly. The type of flow, brush, jets you use also plays a part too as some glass sheets so is easier to rinse down properly than the ones that run down in ribbons.

Once I had master wfp technique I soon found out on first cleans with filthy frames and glass just using pure water alone on a low flow rate took ages as needed at least 2 cleans whilst I was there to get them spot & drip mark free. That's when I decided to start using a high flow rate, fan jets, warm/hot water and a boost and now use vision x which has made first clean so much easier and quicker to do.  Also makes regular cleans a breeze too.

And it started off so well, any chance of giving out some decent honest advice without trying to plug a mates product at every
occasion, anybody with half a brain would know that an additive wont sort out a single problem you mentioned above.

[Smurf]

Can I ask are you using a van mount or backpack/trolley and are you scrubbing and washing down the frames too not just the glass?

I was going to say are you checking them straight away after they dry or not. If not then one cause to get spotting and drip marks as mentioned is dirty water running down from the gutter line etc when it rains.

I’ve found the following what will cause spotting & drip marks when cleaning top openers and frames as follows:
1. Top frames not scrubbed & wash down properly to remove all dirt & oxidation
2. Top window vents getting wet inside and dripping dirty water onto the glass.
3. Rubber seals still leaching trapped old soap/dirt or seal bleed from the rubber itself
4. Water getting inside the frames themselves leaching dirty water out of the frame drainage holes.

If you’re on about spotting at the sides or the bottom of the glass again it's down technique as not scrubbing & rinsing down properly. The type of flow, brush, jets you use also plays a part too as some glass sheets so is easier to rinse down properly than the ones that run down in ribbons.

Once I had master wfp technique I soon found out on first cleans with filthy frames and glass just using pure water alone on a low flow rate took ages as needed at least 2 cleans whilst I was there to get them spot & drip mark free. That's when I decided to start using a high flow rate, fan jets, warm/hot water and a boost and now use vision x which has made first clean so much easier and quicker to do.  Also makes regular cleans a breeze too.

And it started off so well, any chance of giving out some decent honest advice without trying to plug a mates product at every
occasion, anybody with half a brain would know that an additive wont sort out a single problem you mentioned above.

The first part was quite concise I thought to try helping the guy out.
The last part was how after gaining a lot of experience I prefer to work now to speed first cleans up and make my job easier so thought it was worth mentioning regardless of what your views are SeanK 

[Walter Mitty]

It may or may not be relevant but I've got into the habit of scrubbing and rinsing more thoroughly on windows that open from the bottom - especially in warmer weather.  This is because their angle, when open, attracts dirt more readily.

[nathankaye]

Thanks guys.... chris turners advice is more close to home......but to give more info...
Van mounted, 500ltr tank. Gardiner brush, medium light  brush, mono not flocked.  Its not the frames, as I cleaned them b4 wfp and for first several cleans.Now Im just maintaining windows. I think its oil from the rubber seals, but after 6mnth wud have thought this wud have stopped by now. Also no vents on windows. I hav good rapour with my  cust after 14yrs n ive asked for feedback.
Just at a loss at mo

[Rich Wilts]

Can I ask are you using a van mount or backpack/trolley and are you scrubbing and washing down the frames too not just the glass?

I was going to say are you checking them straight away after they dry or not. If not then one cause to get spotting and drip marks as mentioned is dirty water running down from the gutter line etc when it rains.

I’ve found the following what will cause spotting & drip marks when cleaning top openers and frames as follows:
1. Top frames not scrubbed & wash down properly to remove all dirt & oxidation
2. Top window vents getting wet inside and dripping dirty water onto the glass.
3. Rubber seals still leaching trapped old soap/dirt or seal bleed from the rubber itself
4. Water getting inside the frames themselves leaching dirty water out of the frame drainage holes.

If you’re on about spotting at the sides or the bottom of the glass again it's down technique as not scrubbing & rinsing down properly. The type of flow, brush, jets you use also plays a part too as some glass sheets so is easier to rinse down properly than the ones that run down in ribbons.

Once I had master wfp technique I soon found out on first cleans with filthy frames and glass just using pure water alone on a low flow rate took ages as needed at least 2 cleans whilst I was there to get them spot & drip mark free. That's when I decided to start using a high flow rate, fan jets, warm/hot water and a boost and now use vision x which has made first clean so much easier and quicker to do.  Also makes regular cleans a breeze too.

Vision has feck all to do with it.

In fact if it was me I'd stop using the Vision and expect better results.

[chris turner]

Thanks guys.... chris turners advice is more close to home......but to give more info...
Van mounted, 500ltr tank. Gardiner brush, medium light  brush, mono not flocked.  Its not the frames, as I cleaned them b4 wfp and for first several cleans.Now Im just maintaining windows. I think its oil from the rubber seals, but after 6mnth wud have thought this wud have stopped by now. Also no vents on windows. I hav good rapour with my  cust after 14yrs n ive asked for feedback.
Just at a loss at mo

Depends on the rubber seals. On fairly old windows with slightly perished petruding rubber, the 'runs' from the top of the glass will nearly always cause spotting, no matter how well there rinsed.
As king mentioned, there is a trick to minimise or stop the spotting. You need to rinse the top rubber, then run your brush along the top edge where the glass meets the frame, then rinse again but from about 1-2cm below the rubber.
Once you master the technique, you will naturally have an eye for which windows will cause you problems and will become a master at rinsing as close to the top rubber as possible without actually touching it.
There's a few videos on YouTube showing the technique.

[Shane sharples]

Iv had this problem and after a lot of head scratching , I think iv found what it is- on my own kitchen window .
Above the window is cement or something which has eventually started to turn to powder after years and years of rain battering it .
So- when the upstairs window is cleaned , then all the downstairs windows are cleaned, any small amounts of water that hit that powdery cement run down onto the window after iv cleaned it .


This may or may not be your problem

[SeanK]

Shrek would that be the norm for your area ? Iv honestly never come across windows that are flush with the outside walls
they are bound to be a nightmare to keep clean as every shower of rain is going to do the same.

[Shane sharples]

A lot of ex council houses are like this in my area Sean , it's Been doing my head in, if it's not the dribbles from the top window, it's the rain!! can't be helped I suppose but doesn't look good though if iv done the windows whilst custys are at work and then it rains before they get back 

[Smurf]

Can I ask are you using a van mount or backpack/trolley and are you scrubbing and washing down the frames too not just the glass?

I was going to say are you checking them straight away after they dry or not. If not then one cause to get spotting and drip marks as mentioned is dirty water running down from the gutter line etc when it rains.

I’ve found the following what will cause spotting & drip marks when cleaning top openers and frames as follows:
1. Top frames not scrubbed & wash down properly to remove all dirt & oxidation
2. Top window vents getting wet inside and dripping dirty water onto the glass.
3. Rubber seals still leaching trapped old soap/dirt or seal bleed from the rubber itself
4. Water getting inside the frames themselves leaching dirty water out of the frame drainage holes.

If you’re on about spotting at the sides or the bottom of the glass again it's down technique as not scrubbing & rinsing down properly. The type of flow, brush, jets you use also plays a part too as some glass sheets so is easier to rinse down properly than the ones that run down in ribbons.

Once I had master wfp technique I soon found out on first cleans with filthy frames and glass just using pure water alone on a low flow rate took ages as needed at least 2 cleans whilst I was there to get them spot & drip mark free. That's when I decided to start using a high flow rate, fan jets, warm/hot water and a boost and now use vision x which has made first clean so much easier and quicker to do.  Also makes regular cleans a breeze too.

Vision has feck all to do with it.

In fact if it was me I'd stop using the Vision and expect better results.

I never said it did now did I…
But just so happens warm/hot pure water and visions x for me works out quicker to clean filthy windows and frames properly and on regular cleans too which also dries out spot free and run marks free all the same. That is if you have mastered the basic wfp technique in the first place.

There are other chems you can spray onto  a wfp brush that will also help with rubber bleed and oxidation of frames.

If you are unsure of the problem just do a wet finger test and rub yer finger along the frame for oxidation or for rubber bleed rub yer wet finger along the rubber seal. Your finger will either turn white from the frames or black off the seals or remain clean.

It goes without saying any dirty water left dripping down from the surface above be it lead flashing, cladding, tiles, brickwork, stone/concrete lintels, fascias etc can affect the results of a window clean.

[Jonny 87]

Can I ask are you using a van mount or backpack/trolley and are you scrubbing and washing down the frames too not just the glass?

I was going to say are you checking them straight away after they dry or not. If not then one cause to get spotting and drip marks as mentioned is dirty water running down from the gutter line etc when it rains.

I’ve found the following what will cause spotting & drip marks when cleaning top openers and frames as follows:
1. Top frames not scrubbed & wash down properly to remove all dirt & oxidation
2. Top window vents getting wet inside and dripping dirty water onto the glass.
3. Rubber seals still leaching trapped old soap/dirt or seal bleed from the rubber itself
4. Water getting inside the frames themselves leaching dirty water out of the frame drainage holes.

If you’re on about spotting at the sides or the bottom of the glass again it's down technique as not scrubbing & rinsing down properly. The type of flow, brush, jets you use also plays a part too as some glass sheets so is easier to rinse down properly than the ones that run down in ribbons.

Once I had master wfp technique I soon found out on first cleans with filthy frames and glass just using pure water alone on a low flow rate took ages as needed at least 2 cleans whilst I was there to get them spot & drip mark free. That's when I decided to start using a high flow rate, fan jets, warm/hot water and a boost and now use vision x which has made first clean so much easier and quicker to do.  Also makes regular cleans a breeze too.

Vision has feck all to do with it.

In fact if it was me I'd stop using the Vision and expect better results.

It's funny that vision is now becoming more "liked" than not liked. Pretty much everyone has good things to say about it (especially the latest version) and only a few like seank and quarter light who think it's rubbish.

It's funny how times change. wonder if it's an age thing? 

[SeanK]

Can I ask are you using a van mount or backpack/trolley and are you scrubbing and washing down the frames too not just the glass?

I was going to say are you checking them straight away after they dry or not. If not then one cause to get spotting and drip marks as mentioned is dirty water running down from the gutter line etc when it rains.

I’ve found the following what will cause spotting & drip marks when cleaning top openers and frames as follows:
1. Top frames not scrubbed & wash down properly to remove all dirt & oxidation
2. Top window vents getting wet inside and dripping dirty water onto the glass.
3. Rubber seals still leaching trapped old soap/dirt or seal bleed from the rubber itself
4. Water getting inside the frames themselves leaching dirty water out of the frame drainage holes.

If you’re on about spotting at the sides or the bottom of the glass again it's down technique as not scrubbing & rinsing down properly. The type of flow, brush, jets you use also plays a part too as some glass sheets so is easier to rinse down properly than the ones that run down in ribbons.

Once I had master wfp technique I soon found out on first cleans with filthy frames and glass just using pure water alone on a low flow rate took ages as needed at least 2 cleans whilst I was there to get them spot & drip mark free. That's when I decided to start using a high flow rate, fan jets, warm/hot water and a boost and now use vision x which has made first clean so much easier and quicker to do.  Also makes regular cleans a breeze too.

Vision has feck all to do with it.

In fact if it was me I'd stop using the Vision and expect better results.

It's funny that vision is now becoming more "liked" than not liked. Pretty much everyone has good things to say about it (especially the latest version) and only a few like seank and quarter light who think it's rubbish.

It's funny how times change. wonder if it's an age thing? 

Its even funnier that you didn't have enough faith in it to remain part of the team/investors, must be an age thing because I
certainly wouldn't have walked away from something I thought was going to be a success.

[Smurf]

"Marmite" springs to mind as you either love or hate it.
Kempy sorted me out with a new vision mix which I like even more.

[Jonny 87]

Can I ask are you using a van mount or backpack/trolley and are you scrubbing and washing down the frames too not just the glass?

I was going to say are you checking them straight away after they dry or not. If not then one cause to get spotting and drip marks as mentioned is dirty water running down from the gutter line etc when it rains.

I’ve found the following what will cause spotting & drip marks when cleaning top openers and frames as follows:
1. Top frames not scrubbed & wash down properly to remove all dirt & oxidation
2. Top window vents getting wet inside and dripping dirty water onto the glass.
3. Rubber seals still leaching trapped old soap/dirt or seal bleed from the rubber itself
4. Water getting inside the frames themselves leaching dirty water out of the frame drainage holes.

If you’re on about spotting at the sides or the bottom of the glass again it's down technique as not scrubbing & rinsing down properly. The type of flow, brush, jets you use also plays a part too as some glass sheets so is easier to rinse down properly than the ones that run down in ribbons.

Once I had master wfp technique I soon found out on first cleans with filthy frames and glass just using pure water alone on a low flow rate took ages as needed at least 2 cleans whilst I was there to get them spot & drip mark free. That's when I decided to start using a high flow rate, fan jets, warm/hot water and a boost and now use vision x which has made first clean so much easier and quicker to do.  Also makes regular cleans a breeze too.

Vision has feck all to do with it.

In fact if it was me I'd stop using the Vision and expect better results.

It's funny that vision is now becoming more "liked" than not liked. Pretty much everyone has good things to say about it (especially the latest version) and only a few like seank and quarter light who think it's rubbish.

It's funny how times change. wonder if it's an age thing? 

Its even funnier that you didn't have enough faith in it to remain part of the team/investors, must be an age thing because I
certainly wouldn't have walked away from something I thought was going to be a success.

More things in life than money Sean. Vision was/is doing very well, but was just consuming too much of my time. I had to prioritise.

I spend enough of my time talking about it now. Imagine having dozens of emails every night to reply too, and orders to sort out.

David and his family are doing a grand job in keeping it going.