[andyM]

SeanK You really shouldn't be commenting on threads like this as it's clear to me you don't have a clue what you are talking about. 

[SeanK]

When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax

Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.

At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.

Highlight what you think is nonsense yes outgoing costs will vary from year to year as will they differ when it comes to
comparing one persons to another which has already been explained above.
When starting a business plan you need to know A  How much do I need to fork out before I earn my first penny B How much of
a cash reserve/flow will I need to keep me going over the first few years until I get established and C how much is my
business going to cost me yearly to run.
Now as with all these posts you can only give out advice on the how to work this out or what it might cost if the person is in a similar position as yourself but only the op will know what its going to cost or what he will need to spend.

What you said about a new van shouldn't cost you more than £1500 in a year was a load of baloney!
Those figures don't stack up.

Unbelievable, Buy a van for £15k keep for 5 years then sell it for £7500 how much did it cost you per year ? ok if you
want to get picky you could go into things like interest on the money if you hadn't bought the van or that it might be worth
a few quid less in 5 years but its not hard to get the general meaning of the post.

[SeanK]

SeanK You really shouldn't be commenting on threads like this as it's clear to me you don't have a clue what you are talking about. 

Mate I honestly don't think much is clear to you.

[andyM]

When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax

Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.

At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.

Highlight what you think is nonsense yes outgoing costs will vary from year to year as will they differ when it comes to
comparing one persons to another which has already been explained above.
When starting a business plan you need to know A  How much do I need to fork out before I earn my first penny B How much of
a cash reserve/flow will I need to keep me going over the first few years until I get established and C how much is my
business going to cost me yearly to run.
Now as with all these posts you can only give out advice on the how to work this out or what it might cost if the person is in a similar position as yourself but only the op will know what its going to cost or what he will need to spend.

What you said about a new van shouldn't cost you more than £1500 in a year was a load of baloney!
Those figures don't stack up.

Unbelievable, Buy a van for £15k keep for 5 years then sell it for £7500 how much did it cost you per year ? ok if you
want to get picky you could go into things like interest on the money if you hadn't bought the van or that it might be worth
a few quid less in 5 years but its not hard to get the general meaning of the post.

SeanK look the way you are going about the accounting is all wrong.
What you are doing in your example is 15k - 7.5k = 7.5k then 7.5k /5= 1.5k annually
You are taking the figure and dividing it by 5 to get an average per year.
But that's not how we do our accounts for the Tax Man is it?
As I explained earlier you either put the whole lot through your accounts in one go (AIA) or over several years (Capital Allowance) so the percentage you offset makes the yearly expense variable.
Off the top of my head the Capital Allowance deduction is 18-20% (can't remember exactly at the moment) of the initial purchase price for the first year, then 18% of the remaining value deducted year on year for several years.
Hence your monthly or yearly cost of running your business is variable due to the fluctuating cost of your business expenses.
Can you understand that now?   

[8weekly]

When it comes to vans I would by something that's costing you 300 odd a month again it keeps the tax down as its all written off against turnover as long as you have another vehicle otherwise they'll hit you again with knocking another 25-50% tax

Again totally wrong if you want to save the most on tax then don't buy a van instead rent it or lease it, that said it still wouldn't mean its the best the best way to end up with the most money in your pocket after tax which is what all sensible self employed/ business
persons should be aiming for.

At the end of the day in my experience the outgoing costs in this business vary from trading year to trading year.
Some years you will be spending a lot other years not so much.
So in my opinion it's difficult to pin the figure as a definite for a monthly or yearly cost to be set in stone.
This type of business doesn't have expensive asset collateral to add value so it is reliable on profit after turnover to be financially successful.
None of the information provided by SeanK or NWH takes this into account and a lot of what has been said is nonsense in my opinion.

Highlight what you think is nonsense yes outgoing costs will vary from year to year as will they differ when it comes to
comparing one persons to another which has already been explained above.
When starting a business plan you need to know A  How much do I need to fork out before I earn my first penny B How much of
a cash reserve/flow will I need to keep me going over the first few years until I get established and C how much is my
business going to cost me yearly to run.
Now as with all these posts you can only give out advice on the how to work this out or what it might cost if the person is in a similar position as yourself but only the op will know what its going to cost or what he will need to spend.

What you said about a new van shouldn't cost you more than £1500 in a year was a load of baloney!
Those figures don't stack up.

Unbelievable, Buy a van for £15k keep for 5 years then sell it for £7500 how much did it cost you per year ? ok if you
want to get picky you could go into things like interest on the money if you hadn't bought the van or that it might be worth
a few quid less in 5 years but its not hard to get the general meaning of the post.

SeanK look the way you are going about the accounting is all wrong.
What you are doing in your example is 15k - 7.5k = 7.5k then 7.5k /5= 1.5k annually
You are taking the figure and dividing it by 5 to get an average per year.
But that's not how we do our accounts for the Tax Man is it?
As I explained earlier you either put the whole lot through your accounts in one go (AIA) or over several years (Capital Allowance) so the percentage you offset makes the yearly expense variable.
Off the top of my head the Capital Allowance deduction is 18-20% (can't remember exactly at the moment) of the purchase price year on year for several years.
Hence your monthly or yearly cost of running your business is variable due to the fluctuating cost of your business expenses.
Can you understand that now?

I think there's some splitting hairs going on here. You're both right. Sean is talking about average expenses over 5 years whereas Andy is talking about declared expenses for the taxman.

[SeanK]

Andy this is not a post about tax returns its a post about what its going to cost yearly to run your business.
Tax returns and yearly costs are two different bills, example if you buy a new ro membrane this year at £250 you will put it on this
years tax return but the yearly cost to your business has to be divided by the number of years you get use from it, that's why
most companies work their yearly costs out over 5 years.

[andyM]

Yes I agree with your observation 8 weekly. 
But the way I'm putting it across is how it is.
Your accounts at the end of the year will show what your expenses have been for that trading year and not an average of what your expenses will cost you over a 5 year period as SeanK is hinting at.
Simple.

[andyM]

Andy this is not a post about tax returns its a post about what its going to cost yearly to run your business.
Tax returns and yearly costs are two different bills, example if you buy a new ro membrane this year at £250 you will put it on this
years tax return but the yearly cost to your business has to be divided by the number of years you get use from it, that's why
most companies work their yearly costs out over 5 years.

But my accounts are done every year not every 5 years SeanK?

[Mick Kent]

To work costs me £400 a year van insurance, £200 a year van tax. £2400 a year fuel.  £50 MOT. Had my equipment, uniform, system and pole's that are prob 6/7 years old but will say 5 to round it off easier (around £2000 divided by 5 ) £400 a year. A sack of resin £80. filters £60 for the year. Van cost me £3000 5 years ago so again £3000 divided by 5 is £600 a year. Wear an tear on van/servicing etc £500 a year
The above is my business outgoings for just my van without vat, tax or national insurance as those figures differ from 1 person to another.

So £4890 for the year or  £407.50 a month For me to be able to goto work without worrying about the other vans and equipment as will get complicated to work out.

[8weekly]

To work costs me £400 a year van insurance, £200 a year van tax. £200 a month fuel.  £50 MOT. Had my equipment, uniform, system and pole's that are prob 6/7 years old but will say 5 to round it off easier (around £2000 divided by 5 ) £400 a year. A sack of resin £80. filters £60 for the year. Van cost me £3000 5 years ago so again £3000 divided by 5 is £600 a year.
The above is my business outgoings for just my van without vat, tax or national insurance as those figures differ from 1 person to another.

So £1990 for the year or  £165 a month For me to be able to goto work.

Tyres, servicing, website, electricity, IT, insurances, stationary,  phone,  replacement bits and pieces and so on. It all adds up.

[Mick Kent]

To work costs me £400 a year van insurance, £200 a year van tax. £200 a month fuel.  £50 MOT. Had my equipment, uniform, system and pole's that are prob 6/7 years old but will say 5 to round it off easier (around £2000 divided by 5 ) £400 a year. A sack of resin £80. filters £60 for the year. Van cost me £3000 5 years ago so again £3000 divided by 5 is £600 a year.
The above is my business outgoings for just my van without vat, tax or national insurance as those figures differ from 1 person to another.

So £1990 for the year or  £165 a month For me to be able to goto work.

Tyres, servicing, website, electricity, IT, stationary,  phone,  replacement bits and pieces and so on. It all adds up.

Yep your right ammended it now. It does all add up.

[Dave Willis]

I suppose the question should be 'what are your business expenses for the year' far simpler. Quick look on your software like George or Cleaner Planner and bobs yer uncle.

[supernova77]

Guys there's lots of you saying my business costs are "approximately" this or "roughly" that...

You should have a handle on your expenses and know exactly what you spend.

If Alan Sugar was reading this post he would be swivelling on his boardroom chair!

 

[SeanK]

I suppose the question should be 'what are your business expenses for the year' far simpler. Quick look on your software like George or Cleaner Planner and bobs yer uncle.

But that isn't the question Dave, my expenses for last year where around the £1200 mark simply because I didn't need to buy
a single piece of equipment as I had stocked up on all the equipment I needed the year before plus I owe nothing on my van and
equipment and I have access to cheap water.
Now to tell somebody that they could run a wfp window cleaning round on £1200 a year would be nonsense and why its
impossible to work out your running costs over one year.
It takes at least 5 years to get a true figure of what its costing you to run your business year on year which as far as I understand is  what the op is looking to know.

[Dave Willis]

Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.

[Joey Eastwood]

People spending money for the sake of it to avoid paying more tax?? Have you never heard of starting a limited company if your tax bill is that much? 3000 ways to avoid tax and keep the money

[SeanK]

Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.

Get a grip Dave even if your road tax and insurance is costing two grand a year which I doubt very much you would still
be hard pressed to spend £6000 a year on a round that's only 4 or 5 miles from home, my total fuel bill last year was around £400 as my round is similar in distance to yours. I remember Dazmond saying his was around the same or slightly more.
For gods sake we are only wiping dirt of glass with filtered water.

[Mick Kent]

Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.

Get a grip Dave even if your road tax and insurance is costing two grand a year which I doubt very much you would still
be hard pressed to spend £6000 a year on a round that's only 4 or 5 miles from home, my total fuel bill last year was around £400 as my round is similar in distance to yours. I remember Dazmond saying his was around the same or slightly more.
For gods sake we are only wiping dirt of glass with filtered water.

Brilliant SeanK.. wiping dirt off glass with filtered water.. why so many window cleaners think they are it as so beyond me when all we are is dirt wipers.
Franchise dirt wiper, domestic dirt wiper, commercial dirt wiper.... we are all dirt wipers or in charge of dirt wipers.
I love the way you put that :-) brilliant.

[SeanK]

Mine are normally around the £6000 mark or above most years. I think motor expenses top £2000 a year alone not including the initial purchase and my round is within four or five miles from home. Most years I'll spend at least £1000 on a pole and brushes. Probably spent £400 just on clothing in 2015.

Get a grip Dave even if your road tax and insurance is costing two grand a year which I doubt very much you would still
be hard pressed to spend £6000 a year on a round that's only 4 or 5 miles from home, my total fuel bill last year was around £400 as my round is similar in distance to yours. I remember Dazmond saying his was around the same or slightly more.
For gods sake we are only wiping dirt of glass with filtered water.

Brilliant SeanK.. wiping dirt off glass with filtered water.. why so many window cleaners think they are it as so beyond me when all we are is dirt wipers.
Franchise dirt wiper, domestic dirt wiper, commercial dirt wiper.... we are all dirt wipers or in charge of dirt wipers.
I love the way you put that :-) brilliant.

Mick there's nobody more proud of what I do than me but I'm going to go out shortly and wash dirt of glass and window frames with filtered water, now I can call myself a business man or a what ever I want but it wont change that fact and its nothing to be
ashamed off.
But that wasn't the point behind the comment, the point was that it doesn't take mega money to do it.

[jk999]

Dave why do you buy a new pole every year I have had my slx four years and still  going strong