[8weekly]

i think its great what Vin/ian/kent kleen has done.

If i was new to window cleaning and read this thread i would jump onto this. I think i would be better off with Vin than doing my own work 

Yeah, but the usual CIU no hopers  are quick to pour scorn.

[Smurf]

I like to keep an open mind myself but just was trying to get my head around the benefits, pros & cons etc of running a franchise business. 

[ChumBucket]

I could put someone off buying into a window cleaning franchise as quick as I could put them off buying an ionic van with thermopure system in it for 30 +k.

I'm interested why you're so against the idea of rewarding people who work with you.  Your posts above are full of complaints about the type of person you get when you're employing.  Well, there's a very old phrase, "Pay peanuts, get cretins".  Our franchisees earn a great deal of money for working three day weeks.  Why would they shirk or disappear or not be keen to learn when they are making a lot of money and are in control of what they do?

I know the standard response on here is that something you don't even try to understand can't work or that you're talking tripe if you dare to suggest that you might be successful.  However, if you actually gave it some thought, you might just see that a franchise attracts the sort of person you might be happy to trust to do a good and reliable job.

I know the noisy ones on here are unpersuadable and that some people on here never, ever do anything but snipe (and seem weirdly proud of the job!) 

However, I found my first franchisee on here and he was well-met indeed.  I'd trust him to the end of the earth and he's earning a good living (soon to be exceptional with the number of customers we're going to gain over the summer).  Hopefully someone else reading this thread might contact me about a franchise;  I'm sure they'll end up very happy.  In fact, I'll do everything in my power to make them so.  At the moment we only franchise in Southampton so if you're out there wondering whether to dip your toe in the water, contact me.  If you do I'll pass you straight to the franchisees to discuss how they are doing.

Vin

This time next year Rodney.......

[Smudger]

Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...

I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.

It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.

Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment

Darran

[ChumBucket]

Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...

I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.

It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.

Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment

Darran

Hypocrite springs to mind here.... Solar Steve??

[Mick Kent]

Isthis how it works??
I build up 400 x £10 over a 4 month period  whist working the round untill the 400 customer target is hit, i then advertise for a franchisee to join at 8k for which with the 8k ill need to buy a van and system for them too use so no change there which is fair enough?  Or maybe they have there own van?
Franchisee then works and out of the 4k he cleans a month i get 1k in royalties.
In a year i could have 3 franchisee's working cleaning 12k in total and ill recieve 3k a month in royalties for doing nothing at all.
In 4 years i could have 12 franchisee's cleaning 48k a month with £12k royalties to me a month.
in 10 years i could have 30 franchisee's cleaning 120k a month with 30k in royalties to me a month.
If this is the basics then what a fantastic way to make a living.
Is there any window cleaning franchise companies making that sort of profit out there??
If so and its that easy then what a brilliant way to build and run a business.

[NWH]

Envy goodness me lol,I can see this concept might work yes I can but it would only work selling it to someone completely new to this business. The initial fee is there to stop them backing out early clever move,initial outlay 20% to you weekly 20-25% to the taxman + expenses if you gave em  a grand a weeks worth of work what would they end up with 6-650 a week if they get through the weeks work. If there working alday for that and you break that down by the hour  you get the bigger picture.

[TomSE]

You have to remember that not everyone wants the hassle of getting the customers, advertising and building a reputation. Many new to the job will also have bucket loads of questions and would like to feel as though, should they run into any trouble not knowing what to do in a certain situation or with equipment, that someone is there to help.

Most of us on here will have joined because we've already started up ourselves and now imagine losing 20% of our money and think that would be pointless. But they never have to look for more work, there part of a team of people and most importantly there in a halfway house between being employed and being the boss. They have a fair amount of freedom to work when they want, but they dont have the hassle of building this all up. To many people being made redundant I would imagine would be quite a scary thing, if you then look into window cleaning as what you want to do and see many here saying 1 to 2 years to get a good round or franchise and have a good amount coming in within a few months with training and guidance it would be easy to see why that is appealing to those with family, mortgage & other bills to pay. Plus in Vins case, he's mentioned his franchisees don't feel they could get his prices, so really without his pricing had they gone it alone they'd probably be earning less anyway.

Just my view.
Tom

[Dave Willis]

It's ideal for anyone who needs a job basically. They get made redundant and want desperately to work. Even £600 a week is better than the dole. So in their eyes why not? Not much different to being employed really. Lot of good things in the package for both sides, obviously more for the Franchisor and that's the whole point.
The attraction is they are GUARANTEED work. When I started out there was no guarantee I'd find enough work to live off.

[NWH]

You say they have the freedom to work when they want yes they do so if they decieded they only wanted to do 15 days a month no wonder there's a few interviews to see if there suitable. To argue the pros and cons is not negative or envious of anyone it's simply looking at it for what it is not suitable for someone looking to work for thereselves because there not,why wouldn't they by a car for 8-10 grand get there local licence and drive a Taxi then they can work when they like sit in the warm and end up with the same in there pocket. Lets not forget these people can't or have never cleaned Windows before do you honestly think they are going to go out and clean enough work at a good enough standard week in week out,I can't see it happening and working on planet earth it sounds lovely though doesn't it just get the work and take a cut for doing nout.

[Smurf]

You say they have the freedom to work when they want yes they do so if they decieded they only wanted to do 15 days a month no wonder there's a few interviews to see if there suitable. To argue the pros and cons is not negative or envious of anyone it's simply looking at it for what it is not suitable for someone looking to work for thereselves because there not,why wouldn't they by a car for 8-10 grand get there local licence and drive a Taxi then they can work when they like sit in the warm and end up with the same in there pocket. Lets not forget these people can't or have never cleaned Windows before do you honestly think they are going to go out and clean enough work at a good enough standard week in week out,I can't see it happening and working on planet earth it sounds lovely though doesn't it just get the work and take a cut for doing nout.

I think you will find if they wanted to do private hire cabby work they would have to rent a system from an established firm which is not cheap to get any work as it's ilegal to pick up jobs without punters booking first. If you know anyone that does private hire cabby work  they will tell you they have to work really long and unsocial hours to make a living at it. However the large firm that rents out the cabby systems are laughing all the way to the bank, 

If your on about say London black cabby plates then they change hands for loads of money as are like rocking horse poope to get hold off.

[Walter Mitty]

I'm casting my mind back to ate 1991 when I first started window cleaning.
I had no mentor, had to practice on my own windows, and was very short of money.  Obviously, that far back, it was all ladders too.
With m any people paying 15%ish on their mortgages, it was a very slow start.  I was out canvassing from late afternoon onward.  It wasn't every day by any stretch.  I was canvassing work for two or three days later.  I woud get a few jobs to clean (sometimes very few), and then go out for a part day and clean them.  Then I would do it again.  Very slowly, the gaps shrank.  I picked up so many messers that I could easily go out for the day and only do half the work planned.  It started getting more difficult as my work days filled because I needed energy to canvass afterward.
At the time, I didn't realise how awful my pricing was.
If I had had some money behind me and someone offered me a van (with WFP) and guaranteed me all the work I wanted for an upfront fee and an ongoing royalty payment afterwards, I could have been tempted - especially as the higher pricing of an experienced franchisor would likely have covered the royalties and more.
It's would be easy for me now to say that I woudn't do that.  Of course I wouldn't.  These days I have a fullish round that is priced fairly well for the most part.  But remembering back 25 years to those long evenings door knocking, working for too little, and putting up with loads of messers because I knew no better, someone could have helped me bypass much of that.
Plucking figures from the air, I suppose it comes down to whether someone wants to turn over 100% of £20k or 80% of £40k.  The initial outlay can be recouped eventually.

Allthough it's not for me, I can see the attraction for a newbie.

[NWH]

40-50k each white plates a family member sold 1 a few years back due to rumours that the law would change within 10 years,the councils were going to do away with white plates and make it a free for all but it's yet to happen. Either way you look at it how long is someone going to keep work that has never cleaned a window before these days,the pole is not a magic wand you still need to know if you've cleaned it properly even from the ground and that takes time to grasp. They would need to guarantee you work because a hell of a lot of newly canvassed work gets cancelled within the first couple of cleans,a window cleaning business can't be judged on the amount of work you have that's ridiculous it's the quality of it and quality work takes time-years to build. There is no way anyone could guarantee good quality work they could say we will keep finding you work yeah but some of it or a lot of it would be average jobs or stuff no one that's been about a while wants to do awkward no access jobs. When your not cleaning t he work and it's essential you keep getting work you'll take on more or less anything it's a numbers game why do you care you've told the bloke you'll get him work so here's 2 flats in a block of 20 or 1 bungalow in a close of 20. Scratch the surface and look into it a bit more and you see the bigger picture,people who've never cleaned Windows before wouldn't have a clue of the pitfalls in this job that's without the inclement weather and people not wanting to see you in the rain especially new customers.

[NWH]

Walter you say you had a lot of messers in those days but there are still people who mess WCs about today as you will know,how many people desperately want a WC and after a couple of cleans change there mind a hell of a lot on newly canvased work there Windows are filthy but when they've been cleaned a couple of times don't want the expense anymore 6-8 weeks soon comes round. Even more of a problem when there being cleaned badly they would be even more reluctant to pay for a service then,I'm not saying there's not people out there willing to go down this route there obviously is but that's not to say it's the best way to get into it. Someone with no window cleaning experience would take ages to get to speed and quality of of cleaning before they started to get anywhere near the figures quoted on here,I reckon most of them started say part time and then went down this way of working for someone doing it with no experience would be scratching there head thinking I can't see me making a living at this.

[Walter Mitty]

Yes, of course there are plenty of messers around.  The difference these days is that my workload is higher so it's easier to drop them much sooner.  On a franchise, with work coming in regularly, I imagine it would also be easier to drop them.  The only gremlin with this is that it might be necessary to discuss it with the franchisor when wanting to drop a particular customer.  In the mid to long term, it is in both parties' interest to offload bad customers or customers where the access is very poor (e.g. the 'only clean them if I'm in brigade').  This does leave me wondering if royalties are paid on bad debts.  Also, whether they are paid on amount of work done or on payments received.
I can see the attraction for a newbie who has start-up funds but not the knowledge.  I think back to my mistakes in the early years and some of them were cringeworthy - and they cost me money though the exact amount is hard to quantify.
Hey!  I'm not particularly pro- or anti- franchising.  It just woudn't be for me as I have a reasonable sized one man business already.

[Clever Forum Name]

I am assuming all the franchises work is priced 20% higher than normal.

So if you clean a house and get £10 for it. You would naturally want £12 for that house. Giving cleaner £10 and royalties of 2£?

[Perfect Windows]

Dropping customers: the way we work (as ever, I speak only for myself) is that if the franchisee wants to drop a customer we will always support them.

I don't like rude / unhelpful / slow paying / always out / never leaving the gate unlocked* customers.  Why should the franchisees be any different?

Vin

[Clever Forum Name]

Thing is as well. If you have franchises local ish. If a big job come in which was once in a life time earning opportunity and you needed 4/5 vans. Then it could maybe happen.

Like if you get an email about 40,000 solar panels to be cleaned 

[8weekly]

Great threat well done Ian 101 for opening up a decent debate, I think if you look at the posts it's easy to see the differences in people's approach not only to work but to fellow human beings...

I have respect for Ian and vin and the way they tackle their biz, I took a different route to employ but still see the pro's in their system.

It's seems some just like to put others down, spouting that their work is far superior to everyone else's - well a window is a window, and at least vin wasn't given his round from his old man.

Franchises for both parties works well - as does employing, it's typical of some ( a British disease ) to envy those to wish to be a suscess, in the states these guys would be celebrated for creating work and employment

Darran

Hypocrite springs to mind here.... Solar Steve??

Walter Mitty springs to mind. 

[Perfect Windows]

Either way you look at it how long is someone going to keep work that has never cleaned a window before these days,the pole is not a magic wand you still need to know if you've cleaned it properly even from the ground and that takes time to grasp.

Seriously?  I taught my son to clean windows well when he was nine and my daughter when she was twelve.

Your argument works just as well against the unemployables* you use as it does against franchisees.  How do you get your people over the huge hurdle of How To Get A Window Clean? 

In passing, one thing to take into account is that the franchisees are responsible for their work, so perhaps they are interested enough to learn quickly and take interest in getting the job done correctly.  They seem pretty good at the mammoth task of getting both the glass and the frames clean in a manner that customers find acceptable.

Vin

* I use this word as you seem to refer to them time and time again in terms that suggest they are pretty much unemployable