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mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2006, 08:43:20 pm »
leeksons, glad you raised this topic because i have lost 6 customers and had about the same in bad feedback in the last 6 weeks of wfp.
I'm into the 2nd week of 2nd cleans and expect a few more before things settle.
I have had extreme comments on how brilliant it does the windows to how rubbish it does them. These comments are from good customers of 2 years doing trad. Where i had 1 unhappy customer one time. That's it.

I'm finding that houses that came up a treat 1st time round are leaving runs this time and i've always cleaned frames and surrounds when trad so nothing was that dirty.
Houses that i rinsed loads both times came up crap in places 2nd time round. I have a good relationship with my customers and i explain it is not the equipment but my technique, which will improve over time.
It's very confusing. Last week I had a bad week but this week has been good (ish) so far.

I've gained more cash wise than i've lost and i'm doing better than last month but it is the not knowing what the customer is going to say that is putting me on a downer at times. I want to sort the wheat from the chaff really and go on from there.
I'm at the stage where i'm thinking of typing a letter explaining the benefits etc etc but also adding that i know some people will remain resistant to this method and if they would like them done the old way i will provide their details to a couple of lads i know who will do it trad and the ones that stay will see an advantage to this new method over the coming months etc etc.
Have got to admit i'm finding it a dent to my pride (for brief moments anyway) after having an easy ride cleaning trad. I had begun to think that people don't like complaining, how wrong i am.


mark

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2006, 08:54:07 pm »
If they were good customers they would have tolerated you for one clean and told you if there were any problems with your cleaning and would of give you the chance to put things right.

Just for the record i have only lost 2 customers ,one when i walked up the path with my kit and another who just did not like the idea of wfp, but the same guy used to moan if ity were going to rain etc.

Wfp is a great tool for weeding out problem customers, if they did not moan about wfp they would find something else to moan about in the future.

I think you will just have to accept some customers will not give wfp a chance no matter what, in there eyes it looks like you are cheating.

Squeeky

All my higher end residential absolutely love the results of wfp on there windows and they are the ones who readily accept the fact that i am using wfp for safety more than anything.
In fact a lot of my customers are concerned for my safety and understand that wfp is the future.

Dave

matt

Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2006, 08:56:08 pm »


I remember an old post of Graham Goulds (remember him) saying that when Summer comes, then there'll be problems [with WFP].



Tosh, wasnt it you who scared him off with your "gayam" taunts (of course that was pre-mod days ;)

appogies if it wasnt you

ronaldo

  • Posts: 840
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2006, 09:01:17 pm »
I actually enjoy cleaning when its really hot because you can see what the finish is like as it drys so fast.

i always clean the side of the house that the sun is on first so i can get to check it when i,m done.

When its really hot like it was today i have been doing the glass and the frames on the sides only{not tops} and been round tonight and collected and had no complaints just compliments.

wheather this is because i,m on my 3rd and 4th cleans i dont no  8)
A bad days fishing is better than a good days work !

Richy L

  • Posts: 2257
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2006, 09:05:17 pm »
"If they were good customers they would have tolerated you for one clean and told you if there were any problems with your cleaning and would of give you the chance to put things right."  -  david@St-Ives.

Thats a good point, its just a shame, im just a little worried its my technique, and i dont know what i am doing wrong, so i cant really correct it

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2006, 09:05:22 pm »
If they were good customers they would have tolerated you for one clean and told you if there were any problems with your cleaning and would of give you the chance to put things right.

Wfp is a great tool for weeding out problem customers, if they did not moan about wfp they would find something else to moan about in the future.

I think you will just have to accept some customers will not give wfp a chance no matter what, in there eyes it looks like you are cheating.

Dave


Ain't that a fact.

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2006, 09:12:22 pm »
leeksons, there are some well put together posts on another forum in the a-z section of wfp issues.

It is technique for me i know. I had a good 1st 3 weeks. Checked most later and got good feedback.
It seemed so easy. Point and clean.
Have slowed down this week though and things are ok on the whole. I'm checking and finding odd drip and spot still though.

Paul Coleman

Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2006, 09:15:29 pm »
I actually enjoy cleaning when its really hot because you can see what the finish is like as it drys so fast.

i always clean the side of the house that the sun is on first so i can get to check it when i,m done.

When its really hot like it was today i have been doing the glass and the frames on the sides only{not tops} and been round tonight and collected and had no complaints just compliments.

wheather this is because i,m on my 3rd and 4th cleans i dont no  8)

i've found that the complaints have dropped off to almost nothing now too.  I'm on 3rd/4th time around with a lot of them.  There has been a turnover of about 5% of my work during this settling in time. It may end up at 10% but I'm OK with that.  Some of this has been customers cancelling (not all of this was justified).  Some of them I've dropped because they moan about the concept of WFP generally NOT about the finish.  I got peed off with hearing the moans.  It can get quite infectious and pulls me down.  Some jobs I've dropped because of the poor access for my equipment.

A fair number of customers complained after the first clean.  I though this was out of order because I did pre-warn everyone that it can take two or even three cleans before a top quality job is achieved.  Two tried to order me onto the ladder.  Dropped !!

I'm OK with a turnaround of 10% because of WFP but I don't think it will go that high.

petetaylor56

  • Posts: 175
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2006, 09:19:39 pm »
 :)i have been using wfp since april last year and have lost 3 customers because of it one did not like windows left wet another because her flat roof got wet and the other just did not like it and the one who did not like it mum and dad have took me on to do there windows and the place they work so keep at it :) and a little note for squeaky i do a very big house takes me 2 days lady very fussy sash windows three floors never one complaint  ;D
today i be mostly wfp

jinky230

Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2006, 09:42:43 pm »
leeksons get the explanation letter from aquatech website

copy the info into your letterhead and this will back you up
it totally explains everything about wfp

here is the details of the letter as follows





The Water fed pole system

Your upstairs windows have been cleaned today using a method, which will soon be the industry standard. As a company wanting to be at the forefront of our industry, we have decided to invest in this technology which involves the use of telescopic poles and 100% pure water, which we filter through deionization vessels.

We are embracing this technology for a number of reasons

1). Better cleaning results. The major advantage of pure water is its desire to return to its impure state; hence its capacity to absorb large amounts of dirt from your windows .A word of warning this process involves brushing your windows clean with pure water. As such they will be left wet and will need time to dry naturally. This may be a bit disconcerting at first, as obviously this is not what our customers are used to.

2). Health and safety. Legislation being brought in from Europe will limit the use of ladders as temporary workstations. The law now states that ladders can only be used when all viable alternatives have been considered, and now water fed pole systems are seen as a safer viable alternative and I don’t want to be held liable to prosecution for accidents to staff and customers. Accidents do happen (as I have fell off the ladder a couple of times myself) If we can do the job to a high standard whilst standing on the ground so much the better. Also we have been forced to pay increasingly higher public and employers liability insurance premiums, which is becoming unaffordable for the use of ladders, especially for staff. And ladders are no longer an option for my business

3). Environmentally friendly. Pure water only is used, eliminating the need for detergents and chemicals.

4). Reduced disturbance. No more dents in your lawn obviously we tried to minimise this aspect but sometimes the `old fashioned method` made it very difficult.

5). Increased privacy. No more odd faces peering through your upstairs windows .No more embarrassing moments, believe me it does happen, but I will not go into detail.

6). Windows will stay cleaner .The absence of sticky soap residue means that dirt will find it harder to cling to your windows, hence your windows stay cleaner for longer.

Additional Benefits.

7). As your windows will be brushed clean almost unavoidably your frames will be cleaned at the same time

8 We can now reach with ease previously inaccessible aspects of your property. Third floor windows, conservatory roofs, windows above conservatory’s, that had to be previously left.

9). We can now clean all aspects of your property. Frames, all UPVC, panelling, canopies, guttering, fascias, garage doors etc.

Please note that over the space of two or three visits the process will `leach` all deposits from around the frames, resulting in an improved finish each time, until ultimately the finish will effectively be sterile. Please be patient if the initial visit is not perfect, as we have been forewarned by our suppliers that two or three visits can be necessary for maximum effect.

I hope this has covered everything, that’s it lots of increased benefits .Our aim continues to give a high level service. Please feel free to phone or discuss any part of the above or indeed any other aspect of our service. If you have any concerns about this new way of cleaning your windows please let me know and we will endeavour to alleviate your concerns.

Yours thankfully

Your Name

Your Business Name




Dominic

  • Posts: 71
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2006, 09:44:04 pm »
Don't worry earning double makes up for the odd wfp problem. Just got to adapt and overcome. I do loads of wooden frames on big old georgian house  and had no end of problems when I started on wfp. Some worked some didn't. But at the end of the day the income has doubled and the customers that are happy are really happy.
I think honesty is the best policy and I just tell customers the pros and cons of the poles now.

Dom

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2006, 09:45:28 pm »
leeksons get the explanation letter from aquatech website

copy the info into your letterhead and this will back you up
it totally explains everything about wfp

here is the details of the letter as follows





The Water fed pole system

Your upstairs windows have been cleaned today using a method, which will soon be the industry standard. As a company wanting to be at the forefront of our industry, we have decided to invest in this technology which involves the use of telescopic poles and 100% pure water, which we filter through deionization vessels.

We are embracing this technology for a number of reasons

1). Better cleaning results. The major advantage of pure water is its desire to return to its impure state; hence its capacity to absorb large amounts of dirt from your windows .A word of warning this process involves brushing your windows clean with pure water. As such they will be left wet and will need time to dry naturally. This may be a bit disconcerting at first, as obviously this is not what our customers are used to.

2). Health and safety. Legislation being brought in from Europe will limit the use of ladders as temporary workstations. The law now states that ladders can only be used when all viable alternatives have been considered, and now water fed pole systems are seen as a safer viable alternative and I don’t want to be held liable to prosecution for accidents to staff and customers. Accidents do happen (as I have fell off the ladder a couple of times myself) If we can do the job to a high standard whilst standing on the ground so much the better. Also we have been forced to pay increasingly higher public and employers liability insurance premiums, which is becoming unaffordable for the use of ladders, especially for staff. And ladders are no longer an option for my business

3). Environmentally friendly. Pure water only is used, eliminating the need for detergents and chemicals.

4). Reduced disturbance. No more dents in your lawn obviously we tried to minimise this aspect but sometimes the `old fashioned method` made it very difficult.

5). Increased privacy. No more odd faces peering through your upstairs windows .No more embarrassing moments, believe me it does happen, but I will not go into detail.

6). Windows will stay cleaner .The absence of sticky soap residue means that dirt will find it harder to cling to your windows, hence your windows stay cleaner for longer.

Additional Benefits.

7). As your windows will be brushed clean almost unavoidably your frames will be cleaned at the same time

8 We can now reach with ease previously inaccessible aspects of your property. Third floor windows, conservatory roofs, windows above conservatory’s, that had to be previously left.

9). We can now clean all aspects of your property. Frames, all UPVC, panelling, canopies, guttering, fascias, garage doors etc.

Please note that over the space of two or three visits the process will `leach` all deposits from around the frames, resulting in an improved finish each time, until ultimately the finish will effectively be sterile. Please be patient if the initial visit is not perfect, as we have been forewarned by our suppliers that two or three visits can be necessary for maximum effect.

I hope this has covered everything, that’s it lots of increased benefits .Our aim continues to give a high level service. Please feel free to phone or discuss any part of the above or indeed any other aspect of our service. If you have any concerns about this new way of cleaning your windows please let me know and we will endeavour to alleviate your concerns.

Yours thankfully

Your Name

Your Business Name





Where have i seen that before ?

Chris Cottrell

  • Posts: 3162
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2006, 09:46:21 pm »

I'll buy you breakfast on Tuesday!
 


I'm getting jelous with you guys and this Tesco breakfast club :'(

I think Mark and me should start the "breaky at Morrisons club  ;D"


Chris

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2006, 11:48:31 pm »

I'll buy you breakfast on Tuesday!
 


I'm getting jelous with you guys and this Tesco breakfast club :'(

I think Mark and me should start the "breaky at Morrisons club  ;D"


Chris

the beccles one??? ;D

Morph

Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2006, 12:21:07 am »
in the last two days i have been using WFP, and rinsing a plenty!i have been using it for about 5 days now.
But i have lost two customers in just two days. Two good earners as well. They are telling me the windows arent clean. That there are marks all over the windows.
Why is this happening??! >:( :(

Leeksons
In hot sunshine, view your brush.........as an applicator/and/squeegee.
Rub the window down from top to bottom with brush and normal flow, as you would with applicator,(as if you are getting the dirt off the window, because that is what you are doing.)
Do the same, only lighter as if your brush is now the squeege,(as if taking the dirty soapy water off)
But do it all slightly quicker.

It is technique.  That has to take time to learn.
Skill will always have the edge
I've only been doing wfp since Oct 05.  Just getting the hang of it.

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2006, 08:09:38 am »
weve got our own little cafe Brett/ myself club ;D
full monty shortly again Brett,you can keep your supermarket
swill  ;D

 Proper wf polers misters  breakfast

 gaza


IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2006, 10:58:37 am »
Sorry to here you have lost a customer Leeksons.

Its so hard when you switch to wfp because you are worried about how customers are going to react to wfp and the last thing you want is to lose a lot of customers, that was my biggest worry when I decided to switch to wfp.

I started telling my customers in Sept last year I was switching to wfp, I did all the research on what to buy, I tried wfp and hated it, but that was because it was new to me and I'm getting old and set in my ways.

I started wfp in Jan at the turn of the year, I put my prices up 20% on everything on my entire round. Were now in May and this is what happened to my round,
I have lost to date £180.00, thats 19 customers. I have lost only three  customers who did not want wfp, Two more cos they lost their jobs, One moved and one died, The rest I lost due to them not wanting to pay the new price.

On the positive side I have taken on 68 new customers in the last 6 months totalling £828.50, many of the new customers are due to wfp.

So try to remain positive, Its hard I know, but you will not be able to judge how sucssefull the switch to wfp is untill about 6 months as gone bye. Try to find out if the windows are clean were the customer as cancelled for your own peace of mind. If they are dirty offer to put them right free of charge.

Wfp will not give perfect results on every window including upvc. You need customers to give you time to learn and time to put things right. 99% of my customers have given me time, most jobs are perfect but I am now learning were the problem frames are and the odd ones I still have to do traditional.

I had some wooden frames this week that have been leaving spots, But I finally know the reson why, whoever put the windows in as seated the glass in putty (wrong way) then put the wooden beading back on, The putty as broken down leaving tiny gaps behind the beading, when rinseing the pure water is reacting with the crumpling putty therfore leaving spots.

I will give this customer one more go with wfp, if the results are not up to my high standard then downstairs will be done trad and wfp upstairs. Good customers give you a chance, if they dont their not worth bothering with,

If you leave spots you have to figure out why, because wfp works but not on everything. I still do some Trad up and down, but I do wish I had invested in wfp many years ago.

Nel.

Tim Morton

  • Posts: 201
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2006, 03:44:12 pm »
Hi, I've just started doing my 3rd wfp clean and I havent lost a single customer, in fact I've gained 2 more and have been able to take on extra work at 5 of my existing customers.

When I 1st started with wfp I did have a few probs, mainly with pvc frames because of the dreaded vents, and with stuck on lead. With the pvc frames you really need to wash the frames well and then leave them for 5 mins and then return to clean the glass. On 1st cleans I'd clean all the frames 1st and then go back over re-cleaning the glass and rinsing off the glass.
On the dreaded leaded lights, I found at least with the 1st few cleans that you need to rinse more than you think you need to, and if the lead is on a front or back door, just give it a quick brush and dry it off with scrim. ( you would be surprised just how many letterboxes and front doors will leak, and equally surprised what new hall carpets and wooden floors cost.  ;D )

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe!!
Craigavon, N.Ireland

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2994
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2006, 06:38:59 pm »
Leeksons,
you never contacted me last week after!
The Friday was pretty warm and you could have seen how I deal with windows in that situation.
Another idea for you;
If you happen to be working close to Chepstow one day next week [and its hot] give me a tinkle and I will try and meet you at one of your accounts.
I'll watch you work and I'll also do a couple of the windows with my own system.
you can then compare results.

And how long did it take before you were able to clean windows to a decent standard in a quick time when you first started using a squeegee?

Don't expect to turn out work at a rate of knots when you first start WFP, and don't expect to acheive gleaming results instantly.
you can't just pick up a pole and be an instant expert in WFP, there is a learning curve to go through.
It's been hot today and I haven't had a single problem.
With time you get experience and know how to adapt your technique to different situations.
I'm happy to arrange a meet and see if I can give you any pointers that will help you acheive the results you want.

Oh, and a good point with regards dealing with complaints....

When they call you up to have a moan, the odds are they have gone over and over in their head what they are going to say to you, and what they'll say if you say this, or how they'll respond if you say that.

Listen to what they have to say without saying a word, when they pause just totally agree with them and tell them you will be around to rectify the problem.

Don't ask questions, don't offer explanations, simply tell them you will call by asap, if it is really local go straght over and examine the problem.

Don't apologise, just tell them you will sort it out, smile a lot and be really friendly.

If they just want to cancel you tell them, 'fair enough, but I will be around in the morning to see what the problem was for future reference.'

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Richy L

  • Posts: 2257
Re: Losing customers because of WFP!
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2006, 06:51:07 pm »
I ended up doing jet washing in cardiff the day i was going to come to see you. i'm really busy this next week with jetwashing and working with my father, then ive got a holiday. But when ill get back ill take you up on that offer, thanks!