[davetherave]

im new to window cleaning and i wanted to know about any advice anyone can give me regarding ladder safety. one question i have is do you rest the ladder above the top of the window and then reach through the rungs to get at the glass. or do you rest the ladder underneath the window, below the sill or even on the sill. Or, do you place the ladder to the side of the window and reach across. I guess it all depends on the type and size of the window you are cleaning but putting the ladder just underneath the window sill sounds kind of dangerous to me, wouldn't the ladders slip out from under you as you reach upwards. I don't know if this question is stupid but like i said im new to window cleaning and i don't fancy taking a fall to find out .

another question i have is do all you other window cleaners rest your ladders against gutters say for example if you have to go over a garage roof. i cleaned my first couple of houses on the weekend and i just rested the ladder aganist the plastic gutter but i doubt this does the gutter much good

any other advice regarding ladders would be appreciated 

[warren flynn]

hi dave,

the main thing with ladders is that if you don't feel comfortable doing a lift then either re foot it slightly or don't do that pitch at all.

confidence will come the more time you spend working with ladders so take your time. remember you will get quicker the longer you stay doing it so don't get too dispondent when jobs seem to bet taking for ever.

as far as going over flat roofs and leaning the ladder against gutters goes, these plastic gutters are a lot stronger than you think, just place it against it gently and up you go.

shine on!

[rp cleaning services]

do not rest your ladders against the gutter,you could have a nasty accident,i would look at the health and safety about using ladders this will help you regards rob

[Sir Squeaky]

Ooh well done.
First two posts didn't involve telling him to spend £1000 and be sub-standard.
I'll deal with this guys.....

Hi Dave.
Welcome to the forum, they tell you all about me in due course!

It really depends on the window.
You may do 3 or 4 windows all differently on the same house.

If it's a tall window(not the height from the ground), then you'll need to put it well above the sill, and maybe the bottom will be a bit through the rungs, but it's better than stretching.

I've got a couple of tall narrow windows where I have to do them from the side, but this is unusual.

If it's not tall, then put it below the sill.
It's easier when you can do this, as you've got nothing in the way of giving the sill a good wipe.

As far as gutters go, depends if they feel strong.
Stand up straight as you walk up and you won't be pushing into them with so much weight....you won't topple over backwards, don't worry!

That's the important bits, anything else...just post some more questions.

Cheers, Rog. (see? I have my uses...)

[Roy Harding]

Hi Dave

Follow this link on ladder saftey.

http://www.nfmwgc.com/health_safety.htm

Roy

[simbag]

First and foremost make sure you have some kind of ladder stabilty device. There are plenty available, I myself use the rojak ladder stopper - essential piece of kit IMO. You then need to make sure that the angle of the ladder is correct, most ladders now have a sticker on the side which allow you to see if it is at the right angle, but as a rule of thumb the distance from the ground to the top of the ladder should be 4 times the distance from the wall to the base of the ladder ie. the ladder should be at an angle of 75 degrees. Eg height = 4m therefore distance from wall to ladder feet = 1m.

As far as where to rest the ladder goes, as you say, it does depend on the type of window. Personally, I try to always place my ladder tight underneath the sill (I never place my ladder on upvc sills, its too slippery). As long as you are not too short, and the window is not on some victorian country house, you should reach the top easily. You can place on sills, but you will need ladder mits or something similar. Just a small tip when placing ladders under wider windows, I place them slightly to the left of central, as I am right handed, it allows me to clean on my left hand side a little easier, as I will have a longer reach on the right side anyway.

To get over gutters I would recommend a ladder stand off, this will allow you to get over the gutters without causing and damage to the gutter, or yourself!

As long as you follow basic guidelines, and have some common sense you should stay safe. "If you don't feel safe, then don't do it"

Hope this has helped, I have only been cleaning a year, but have picked up some valueable tips, from here and in my own experience. If I've missed something out, I'm sure that others here will help.

Simon

[simbag]

Hi Dave

Follow this link on ladder saftey.

http://www.nfmwgc.com/health_safety.htm

Roy

Why didn't I post that, would have been a lot less work on my fingers!

[AuRavelling79]

ladder mitts are brilliant - on the rare occasion I use ladders I wouldn't be without them and when I was on ladders all the time they gave that non-slip feel at the top of the ladder. (Also ladder feet as well)

[Moderator David@stives]

Squeeky

I cant believe you are giving advice about resting ladders on gutters ,that is bang out of order.

It may be ok for you but in my eyes it is a big no no.

By resting ladders on guttering you are asking for big trouble.

If you are stepping off a ladder at height the ladder MUST be securely fixed by tying the ladders off at the top.

I would not advise especially stepping off a ladder to go up a tiled roof without the use of a roof ladder.

Dave

it sounds like you are very inexperienced in ladder use, i would suggest you go on a ladder safety course and spend a few days with someone who is competent in ladder use.

I know the fwc have a ladder saftey video called walk up walk down which maybe worth a look.

I will try to find you some links later, in the mean time be very carefull and dont take ladders for granted.

As some have already said you must use ladder stability devices ,ladder mitts and a rojak ladder stopper at the minimum.

Dave

[rp cleaning services]

good advice dave

[Moderator David@stives]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg402.pdf

[Moderator David@stives]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg405.pdf

[Sir Squeaky]

If you are stepping off a ladder at height the ladder MUST be securely fixed by tying the ladders off at the top.

Oh come Dave!

It's easy for you to say that now you don't use them.
Can you honestly tell me you stopped to tie ladders all the time, I bet you didn't.

You'd never get much done.
As long as you're carful and don't rush it shouldn't be a worry.
I've never had the slightest ladder "moment" with gutters.

[Moderator David@stives]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/experience/ladders.htm

[Ian_Giles]

Hi Dave and welcome to the forum...
By and large you aim to rest the ladder below the sill, on the sill can cause damage, and on UPVC it is also very easy for it to slip sideways on you too.

Andthe same can go for resting your ladders on gutters too, it really isn't to be recommended, if you can find a spot without gutters, or extend the ladder higher and lean it against the side of the house so that as you climb up you only have to step directly onto the flat roof, though that too has it's inherent risks!

Read the info on t he link that Roy has put up there, you will learn a lot from that.

Roger as usual [keep reading posts on this forum and you will see just what I mean] has to take a dig at WFP by making an incorrect statement.

Until he mentioned it, it was just a post about the correct way to use a ladder!

You will I've no doubt have by now read many of the posts on here about WFP.

Take in what you read and save it up for later, but for now learn your craft the traditional way, it gives you by far the best grounding in window cleaning.

But do consider upgrading to WFP at some point in the future...because it IS the FUTURE!

Try and find someone to show you one to one how to use a ladder safely, how to extend it and lower it.
Newbies can cling to them like limpets and gibber with fear when they need to bounce it off the wall slightly so they can lift and lower the extension!

But keep asking your questions on the forum, some will keep telling you to go WFP but others will also do their level best to answer the questions you pose.

Squeaky is our resident, rabid WFP hater and will always manage to introduce a certain level of incomprehension into the WFP debate....and even when there isn't a debate he'll always amuse us in some manner with his flat earth mentality on the merits [or lack of them in Squeaks opinion] on WFP;D

Us moderators [myself and Tosh] would not dream of fanning the flames of his obsession....we leave that to the other forum members

Enjoy the forum, we all hope we can help in any way we can

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

some will keep telling you to go WFP but others will also do their level best to answer the questions you pose.

Well there's the first....

[Moderator David@stives]

Here is a list of ladder safety days ,they are all free there may be one near you.





Height aware events
North West    
May 11 Manchester, NHF Offices Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'
May 12  Warrington  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 22  Manchester United Football Ground  Height Aware Safety and Health
Awareness Day (SHAD)  
June 28 Cheshire and North Staffs Gas Forum  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 29  Holiday Inn, Haydock  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
      
Yorkshire and North East    
May 23  Newcastle-Upon-Tyne  Height Aware Safety and Health Awareness Day (SHAD)  
May 25  Sheffield  Height Aware SHAD  
May 25  Leeds  Height Aware SHAD  
June 1  Leeds  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June w/c 5  Sheffield  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 7  Newcastle-Upon Tyne  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
      
Scotland    
May 23  Fife, Corus Hotel, North Queensferry  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
May 24  Aberdeen, Woodhill House Council Chamber  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 6  Livingston  Height Aware Safety and Health Awareness Day (SHAD)  
June 14  Airdrie, Lanarkshire - Excelsior Stadium  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
      
Wales and South West    
June 1  Brecon  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 6  Wrexham  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 8  SW Wales, Ina Bearngs  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 15  Barry  Workshop at Dow Corning  
June 20  Angelsey  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 27 Newport, Holiday Inn  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
      
South East    
June 7 (TBC)  Brighton Race Course  Height Aware Safety and Health Awareness Day (SHAD)  
June 13  Sandown Race Course  HM Revenue & Customs Advice Day  
June w/c 19 or 26  Fontwell Racecourse, Sussex  Height Aware SHAD  
      
London    
June 13  London, Kensington Town Hall  Height Aware 'Breakfast Meeting'  
June 21  Tottenham Football Ground  Height Aware Safety and Health Awareness Day (SHAD)  
June 27  Charlton Football Ground  Height Aware SHAD  
      
Midlands    
June 20  Stevenage Football Ground  Height Aware Safety and Health Awareness Day (SHAD)  

[Ian_Giles]

Acually Rog, although you are correct in that most of us ignore the tying off of the ladder to nip over a garage roof, Dave is also correct in that it is foolish to recommend ignoring correct procedure on the use of ladders.

you may not as yet have had the ladder fly out from you on gutters, but resting ladders on flexing, slippery gutters is high risk.
And you wonder why Health & Safety are clamping down further and further on the use of ladders when even experienced pro's like yourself talk glibly of using ladders in a dangerous manner.
When you step off a ladder you know it should be tied in some manner, slap on wrist for saying otherwise!

Ian
And quoting me out of context again Rog?

Tut tut, where in my reply did I tell him to forego using ladders?

[Moderator David@stives]

If you are stepping off a ladder at height the ladder MUST be securely fixed by tying the ladders off at the top.

Oh come Dave!

It's easy for you to say that now you don't use them.
Can you honestly tell me you stopped to tie ladders all the time, I bet you didn't.

You'd never get much done.
As long as you're carful and don't rush it shouldn't be a worry.
I've never had the slightest ladder "moment" with gutters.

Well squeeky i can see that , that is why you are still here giving bad advice and trying to be constantly contraversial.  I reccommended tying the ladders off when ascending a roof and certainly if you are daft enough to step off a ladder from a gutter onto a sloping roof.

By climbing a ladder you could be the next statistic so get it right when giving advice

Here are some stats from the hse site.

Have a good look they are all not like superman unlike you.

Falls are the biggest cause of deaths in Britain’s workplaces. 53 people died in 2004/5. On top of this, nearly 3,800 suffered major injury such as broken bones or fractured skulls. You don’t have to fall far to be hurt, 7 deaths and 2247 major injuries were from a fall from below head height. It’s easy to see why HSE has made reducing the number of falls from height a priority.

[Moderator David@stives]

Dave

I am sorry for bombarding you with information overload and a lot of links, but this subject is close to my heart.

Here is another link aimed specificly at window cleaning.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc613.pdf

Dave