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slap bash

  • Posts: 1366
exposed carbon poles
« on: September 23, 2015, 08:36:35 pm »
|I have used carbon pole from Gardeners for  6 years and am happy with the quality but one thing that still drivers me up the walls is the black hands. Come on Alex I cannot believe you are unable to fix this one. I know there are solution in the form of coating that can be used on carbon poles after manufacturing.
Why do have to live with this one.

CasaDeCabra

  • Posts: 76
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2015, 08:53:25 pm »
Gloves?

the king

  • Posts: 1442
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 09:03:28 pm »
there has gota b away as none of my fishing poles leve me with black hands and there made of carbon

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14717
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 09:06:31 pm »
there has gota b away as none of my fishing poles leve me with black hands and there made of carbon

The SL2 carbon poles don't give you black hands either.
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ChumBucket

Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2015, 09:09:26 pm »
there has gota b away as none of my fishing poles leve me with black hands and there made of carbon

The SL2 carbon poles don't give you black hands either.

That's because they are modular. The black hands come from carbon dust created by wear on each section caused by the friction of telescopic action.

trippyboy

  • Posts: 747
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2015, 09:09:42 pm »
I've used my slx for 5 years now and every night I finish work my hands are clean.
Believe it or not, gloves are the way forward, in my case mountain bike mits  ;)

Dave Willis

Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 09:14:50 pm »
there has gota b away as none of my fishing poles leve me with black hands and there made of carbon

The SL2 carbon poles don't give you black hands either.

That's because they are modular. The black hands come from carbon dust created by wear on each section caused by the friction of telescopic action.

Spot on - I fail to see how it can be prevented when the insides also wear too.

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7742
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2015, 09:19:55 pm »
It is not the fact that they are carbon fibre that gives black hands but that they are telescopic and made of carbon fibre.

When a telescopic pole gets dirt between the sections in use it acts like sandpaper and abrades the carbon on the inside of the sections. This produces black carbon dust. A modular carbon pole does not have this abrasion in use.

The ways to help prevent this is to keep the pole very clean from new. Take apart regularly and replace the overlap tape when needed. Also spraying the cleaned overlaps with PTFE spray really helps.

Hybrid poles do not create black dust as quickly due to the presence of fibre glass in the mix.

I have never found the black hands to be an issue as I have always worn gloves for hygiene and protection. Disposable Nitrile gloves work really well for me.

G & M

  • Posts: 513
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2015, 10:18:40 pm »
Spray the sections with a light coating of gloss lacquer from a car accessory shop, helps stop the wear and  black hands.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 07:25:44 am »
Spray the sections with a light coating of gloss lacquer from a car accessory shop, helps stop the wear and  black hands.

We have found clear engine lacquer better. However, it doesn't stop black hand syndrome altogether as we can't coat inside the pole with lacquer and that where most of the wear comes from.

Keeping the pole clean and flushing it is also a big help.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

slap bash

  • Posts: 1366
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2015, 09:09:46 pm »
Alex am I right to say there is not coating on the carbon pole you sell.

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14717
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2015, 09:43:03 pm »
there has gota b away as none of my fishing poles leve me with black hands and there made of carbon

The SL2 carbon poles don't give you black hands either.

That's because they are modular. The black hands come from carbon dust created by wear on each section caused by the friction of telescopic action.

I know that. But you have to break it down in ways window cleaners will understand. I could of just said its the clamps that make it wear, then someone would have said...yeah but they got new clamps that don;t wear out.............then you have to explain all that crap. Just leave the leading line and let them think themselves................ ;D
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G & M

  • Posts: 513
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2015, 11:10:40 pm »
Thanks Spruce and your right about the insides of the poles

8weekly

Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2015, 07:21:06 am »
It is not the fact that they are carbon fibre that gives black hands but that they are telescopic and made of carbon fibre.

When a telescopic pole gets dirt between the sections in use it acts like sandpaper and abrades the carbon on the inside of the sections. This produces black carbon dust. A modular carbon pole does not have this abrasion in use.

The ways to help prevent this is to keep the pole very clean from new. Take apart regularly and replace the overlap tape when needed. Also spraying the cleaned overlaps with PTFE spray really helps.

Hybrid poles do not create black dust as quickly due to the presence of fibre glass in the mix.

I have never found the black hands to be an issue as I have always worn gloves for hygiene and protection. Disposable Nitrile gloves work really well for me.
The CLX was much worse on the hands than an SLX I found. These days though I wear gloves all day except on very sunny days.

slap bash

  • Posts: 1366
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2015, 06:33:28 pm »
I cannot believe they cannot spray the outer section on completion of manufacturing.  After all this is option in the manufacture practice.  I just think its a money saving practice and not making a top quality product. I don`t believe the exposed carbon it harder than other poles on the market.  I don`t see why we need to pay top dollar when there are pole on our market which are better finished. This will come into my mind when I buy my next poles. Sorry Alex but its how I feel.

Bungle

  • Posts: 2391
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2015, 07:26:55 pm »
I've tried using the latex gloves. Apart from not getting my hands tanned in the summer I find that I kept getting the glove caught between the sections and ripping them to shreds  ::)roll
We look at them, they look through them.

M & C Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 1581
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2015, 08:13:05 pm »
My hands do get dirty using my SLX but only after months of use has worn off the top coating. My hands used to get much worse using Aluminium ladders and I couldn't get them clean. Now I just wash them with soap and water when I get home and it just comes straight off. Don't like wearing gloves, they make my hands stink.

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7742
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2015, 09:34:34 pm »
I cannot believe they cannot spray the outer section on completion of manufacturing.  After all this is option in the manufacture practice.  I just think its a money saving practice and not making a top quality product. I don`t believe the exposed carbon it harder than other poles on the market.  I don`t see why we need to pay top dollar when there are pole on our market which are better finished. This will come into my mind when I buy my next poles. Sorry Alex but its how I feel.

Hi slap bash

It is very easy to have the carbon fibre tube sections sprayed up with a coating in the manufacturing process and is what some firms have tried in the past. In fact some factories have tried to convince me to do this in the past as it would also reduce the cost of the tubing.

However the carbon-fibre surface on a pole is far harder than any sprayed on coating would be. Whilst spraying pole sections is fine for older poles that have already had some wear - doing so on a new pole would offer no benefits, but would actually cause the pole to wear faster.

The reason that many factories prefer offering sprayed up tube sections is that it allows them to be less careful in the manufacturing lay-up as they can then grind the tube sections to a level and even surface afterwards and spray on a perfect top coat (hence the reduction in manufacturing costs). However this top coat will always wear quicker than the carbon fibre finished surface. This would then cause tolerance issues as the pole would wear very quickly in high abrasion zones and be much larger in un-worn areas. Carbon fibre is much like ceramic in that the outer layer is just as hard as all of the material down through the layers.

So producing non-coated, pure carbon fibre sections is the best and most costly way of producing high quality carbon fibre tubes.

Some carbon tube sections have a high gloss finish on them which looks great. However carbon fibre is not a clear high gloss finish so this means that to get this finish another layer has been added of top of the carbon. This is usually a layer of gloss epoxy resin. Whilst this looks good, it will also wear more quickly than matt finish carbon fibre. It also means that per metre the section has less carbon content and as a result will be fractionally less stiff and slightly heavier.

It is interesting that in the last few years two competitors to the SLX range were introduced and one of them was introduced with a sprayed on coated finish. I saw examples of this pole that had the top coat wearing off within just 1 week of use and causing tolerance issues. The other one released shortly afterwards had a gloss finish and was touted as not causing black hands. This gloss finish was later dropped and has now been replaced with a similar matt carbon finish to the SLX - the gloss finish did not stop carbon wear and in fact it was not as hard wearing.

I hope that this has helped explain why we have chosen the more expensive and technically more difficult process of having matt carbon top surface on our pole sections.




Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2015, 10:55:13 pm »
I do love a good informative post 👍

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

slap bash

  • Posts: 1366
Re: exposed carbon poles
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2015, 11:02:14 am »
Thanks for your response, Alex.