[brownie]

hi justin
ive had my system now for a couple of months and had trouble with awfull spotting on windows.
i was advised to spend more time on the 1st clean which i hav been doing today.i was spending over 30mins on a detatched house.but i am really struggling because all my windows bead off and do not sheet. i have been going back in the bright sunshine and they are spotting at the top and down the sides. i still dont know if my technique is ok or if im not spending enough time on them,but i will persist......my water is 000.
im going to spend more time on each house tomoz to see if that helps.....windows that bead really cheese me off.

let you know tomoz....brownie

[replacement]

Sorry to hear that i can tell you what i do, but i am no expert in the matter as i only had it a few weeks now. But one thing is i dont get no spotting.

Ill list down what i do on 1st clean..

1, Frames brushed then rinised. Try not to touch the frames again on this clean. ( works for me )

2, Windows Up and Down with Pole then i bash the pole brush on the window to lose any crap, i then go onto another window and do the same as above.

3, 5 mins later after i cleaned the 1st window i go back and clean it again with an up and down brush, i then do an downward movement brushing any thing left down instead of an up and down movement.

4, Give the windows a good rinse.

This way i find 95% plus windows sheet with water and the other 5% ish dont but i think my downward movement has something to do with the windows not spotting but anit 100% sure.

With doing the windows this way i have had 1 window spot and i think that was due to an massive water droppet dropping from the top frame onto the glass.

The thing i have not mentioned is Flow Rate on 1st clean i use FULL FLOW and can use anything from 60 ltrs - 100 ltrs plus per 1st clean its alot of water but hay no complaints yet and all look great.

Now what i found today when i finnished early as i am build my round up, was no problems so i got home and praccy again on the windows ( must have the best cleaned windows in the town now anyway ) i changed my flow rate down and washed each window on an differnt flow rate i need to get this right cos i cant use 60-100 ltrs per house when i do them so this is really important testing time before the 2nd clean ( when i do it again tomorrow ill record the rates did'nt do it that today d`oh ).

Now on my 2nd clean i dont intend to use that much water or spend that time i have been on them so i do the frames as normal and an up and down brush with and downward movement after then finnish with a rinse i used differnt flow rates with differnt results below.

(1) On an very low flow rate ( dripping out ) the windows did not clean very well but left some small spotting.

(2) On have the flow alittle higher windows looked much better cleaned but more spotting.

(3) On an higher flow windows where flippping great but had some small spotting again in (1)

(4) On an even higher flow must have been atleast 1ltr a min windows very nearly perfect but had 2 dry water marks.

So what i have found is use loads of water on the 1st clean and spend some quality time on it. Also for 2nd clean's flow rate is really important with an WFP too high you use to much water too low you get bad finnish.

Now like i have said i am no expert on WFP i am learning all the time but i find the main wash works great for me, but i am worried about the 2nd clean thats why i am testing hopfully ill get the correct flow rate and right way to do them tomorrow, ill report back on my findings for you.

Hope that all makes sense trying to watch TV and having my son shout in my ear about them goals dont help when typing.

Thanks

Justin

[stevekennedy]

Hi Justin,

We are using a similar technique to you. We are also using a lot of water. 1 ltr per minute minimum. We have had 1 complaint from 400 houses. But I suspect we have spotted more than that. We are not sure just how much to clean the top of frame. In your pics you seem to have washed the top of frame   Can really see the contrast.

What size of brush are you using for domestic. My poles have mostly 18" which I find a bit too big for houses. Was thinking of getting 12" brushes  

[replacement]

I got an 16" Brush its soft, sometimes i think an harder brush would be better but never used an hard brush.


Does anyone else use an hard brush and whats better hard or soft brushes?

[stevekennedy]

I got my poles from Ionic. They seem to have two brush types. Residential (Fairly soft), Double Trim (bit stiffer with more bristles). We are getting into the corners better with the DT brush. We like the size of the residential brush and the quality of the DT brush.

Just wondered what others are using  

[Polepro]

Steve,

Ionic do a 12 inch double trim brush too.

Tom

[Jeff Brimble]

The Ionic DT brush is based on the Tucker DT ( they get them made to the same spec, but the tucker brush has Du pont triangular filaments, think the Ionic one has round filaments. Its a good brush whatever. For domestics you need something about 10-12"
Remmber to charge double the price for doing the frames etc.

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Is there anyone using the 18,30,or even 40 foot `Ionic` residentail pole?
I` m thinking of upgrading . The only concern I have is the brush.It is a
little light on the bristle content,although deep,that does help with the
rinsing especially if your using the pump that myself and Jeff Brimble uses.
At present I`m using  the 12 foot model with good results on say monthly
work where the glass ain`t too dirty.In actual fact,the Ionic residential pole
is the only pole to my knowledge that is compatible with the pump that Jeff
and myself use.We both have adapted and made our own to our own `speci`.
Salmon do a good brush,with a little drilling for the jets.Anyone else reccomend
a good brush for our trade doing pure water work?



Lewis Doubtfire,Gleem Clean (Blade Runner)

[stevekennedy]

Hi Polepro, thanks I'll get in touch with Ionic about the 12 inch brush.

Jeff, I think I am way too cheap. I have converted most of my customers onto the pole, just doing upstair at the moment. I didn't want to shock them too much by increasing prices  

I am, however doing all the frames etc. Did you put the prices up immediately or did you ease them up  

Lewis, have you looked at Vikan brushes   I bought one for my conservatory roof cleaning service a couple of years back. It seemed quality and wasn't too heavy or expensive. Might need to drill to put in jets as the water comes out of a channel in the middle. www.arco.co.uk under "vehicle maintenance"





Don't know if these are still too heavy for the res pole

[Jeff Brimble]

Steve,  My prices are based on when I used to ladder,I found that the wfp Made life safer, I am still happy with the prices although I increase without fail annually in the Spring-summer. If you are too cheap you have a BIG problem. Take a long term look at it gho back to some customers tell them you got the prices wrong and the new price is.... and see what happens, then if it works just put everybodys up.
When laddering I found that cleaning the frames took me almost the same time as cleaning the glass and most punters wont pay double so I stopped doing the frames ! Some new members who have the time are doing the frames for free this is a very big mistake. Using a pole properly will increase your earnings and you wont fall off. But if your prices are wrong to start with, put them up or find new customers.
Maybe you should start a post about how to put up prices etc

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Thanks Steve,those brushes look something like the Brodex ones.
How do you go on if ya doing windows with deep ledges.?
There does look to be plenty of `give` and `splay` with em`.



Lewis Doubtfire, Gleem Clean (Blade Runner)

[gibbouk]

the Vikan brushes have a split nylon filiment so as they wear the filament splits making the brush softer until they wear out. the range they do is pretty good loads of different applications. i have now switched to a brush like this and used it today for the first time the results where very good indeed

[allseasons]

You can get that brush from www.cleantech.co.uk with twin jets about £30 i think phone and ask there are not on the website

[stevekennedy]

Hi Jeff, I think I was too generous in  doing the frames for free. I will definitely have to send out a letter or something to get the prices up a bit.

Hi Lewis, I sold that pole and am using Ionics now. They have a gooseneck on them for ledges. I would use an unger angle joint (metal) with an extension. The extensions are available from www.cleantech.co.uk

[Stephen_Watters]

I have an established round in the Weston Super Mare area and I have been thinking about investing in a WFP system.

Is there anyone reasonably local who uses one who would let me come and watch them use their system on domestic properties so I can be really sure that it is right for me and my customers.

many thanks

[matt]

one of the lads here is from bristol and im sure he uses a WFP (thats only 30 mins from weston isnt it

[Philip Hanson]

Hi Stephen, I think Matt's talking about me, I'm in Bristol.  PM me with some info about yourself and I'll think about it.  

(for all I know you could be Jack the ripper!)

I have been using wfp for a couple of months now, and I'm by no means an expert, but having built my own system from scratch with a lot of help from Jeff Brimble (cheers mate!) I have gone through the rather steep learning curve and now use it for ALL of our work, domestic and commercial.

Commercial customers simply wont care what method you use.  Actually they'll be happier that you are not taking risks as they are liable if you get injured.

Domestic customers are a bit harder to convince, but we printed leaflets explaining our wonderful new system in a way that was easy to understand (with pictures). Also, we were talking to them about it for weeks before we started using it, and explaining that the first few times would not be perfect.

Most customers said nothing at all (about 80%), some were very impressed that we were going to such trouble (about 12%), a few moaned about it (about 8%), and we've lost about 4.  But, poling is unusual, and we've more than made up for our losses by people seeing us in the street and going "wow, what is that for?  Window cleaning?  Really?  Thats a wonderful idea, could you do mine?"

You have to be very clear with customers that its going to be pole or nothing.  As most people seem to be glad to have (any sort) of window cleaner, they are usually understanding.  Also, we found with most of our houses that there are windows we couldnt do with ladders (like above a steep roof) that we can do with the pole easily, and customers have been pleased about that.

-Philip

[Majestic]

Philip
Did you get all your stuf from one supplier or shop around, who did you get your  pole / brushes off
John

[Philip Hanson]

I got:

Water Purifier : Peter Fogwill (200gpd RO/DI system)
Poles : Pure2o
Trolley (with remote control): Made myself
Backpack : Made myself

I could do some pics, but the problem is that I dont have a website to upload the pictures to, in order to get them on here.  Maybe I could email them to you. (though I know that a thousand ppl will want emails too!)
Could someone else put them on for me?

-Philip

[Majestic]

Philip
What size pole did you get.
John