[Moderator David@stives]

Is there a single wfp operator out there who earns £140 per hour as a 2 man team, with 1 van?

Paul

I doubt it , no matter what system they use, maybe the odd freak hour but not day in day out , there are about 3000 window cleaners on this forum and they all cant be wrong

[Trevor Knight]

I did'nt realise i had to work with every round as well as my already busy schedule!! There is something called feedback, and a lot of the rounds that we have developed, tell us how they are getting on e.t.c and thats how i know that no other round has matched the £70 in half an hour rate.

Your job is a canvasser and not an accountant so I wouldn't dream of telling you what I earn

30 wfp rounds is'nt a massive amount, but none of them can match or beat the rate stated

I was'nt insinuating that you build your own wfp systems, i was asking if you do that's all!

Is there a single wfp operator out there who earns £140 per hour as a 2 man team, with 1 van?

Yes there are in certain situations, sometimes more, but to consistently hour upon hour, day upon day hit that target then No there isn't, no matter what system they use.
Paul

[Customers4u]

All businesses have bad experiences Dave, i think most would prefer to forget them, my bad experiences, are almost entirely due to window cleaners not paying their bills, which have put 'doorknockers' in a very bad position financially in the past.

Which is why we had to come up with a system on the payment side that ensured this would'nt happen again.

Everyone should learn from their mistakes, Paul Smiths area was a very hard one to canvass, made more so by the rate paul was charging, £6 was the norm for a 3 bd semi in Coventry, he was charging closer to £15, that's totally his call, as its his business and everyone should set the rate they are happy with and thats that.

However, it did not make the job of signing up customers at all easy.

My canvassers had to walk away from countless numbers of houses purely because they were not going to pay that high a price, nothing to do with the abilities of my canvassers as they frequently get really good results.

We have a long standing member of this forum as a client, also from Coventry, and it was even quite hard to get his required rate of £8 for a 3 bed semi, there seems to be a much higher proportion of w/c in Coventry than almost every other area we have canvassed, and we have now canvassed 50 areas, the North of England also seems to be awash with w/c, especially hartlepool, watford was also a toughie, after 2 and a half hours, with 5 canvassers, not one customer!!

Paul

[Moderator David@stives]

Paul

All i was trying to say is things are not always as they first seem , that is why i gave you the benefit of the doubt and never mentioned your experiences with Paul or Vince on this forum and chose to see how you got on as there were a few here saying you werent too bad, so i let you get on with it without me sticking my size 11s  in.

It looks like Paul or people from hartlepool would not earn any where the figures quoted earlier, It may of been that they hit a lucky vane where wfp really suited.

but i suspect it could of been all a part of there sales patter, they would not show you any difficult areas , just the same as you wouldnt lead your advertising with your bad experiences.

Dave

[Customers4u]

Hiya Dave,

I asked for the demo from concept 2o and not the other way round and 10 houses were cleaned, in the time of half an hour! what else can i say?

My experiences with Vince were amicable as far as i am aware, Spain was for both parties, an experiment, Vince wanted more customers, 'Doorknockers' wanted to see if going to another country would be beneficial for both parties concerned, so that maybe we could replicate the process in the future.

The conclusion drawn from Spain was that it was very difficult to attract domestic customers but easier to attract commercial ones, however the manyana attitude of the Spaniards led to 3 large commercial contracts cancelling, despite Vince being present on the sign up of all 3, for whatever reason.

Hello Vince and Karen, by the way if you're reading this by the way, lol

Maybe it would have been better going to Spain in the summer, we went in February, and looking back maybe that was a factor, maybe it was'nt, who knows?

The important thing is we went out there and tried it, and i posted on this forum back in February, on the conclusion of the experience, for other members who may think of Spain as a place to set up, to draw their own conclusions.

One thing for sure though, it is definetley no where near as easy as setting up in the U.K. So members need to bear this in mind if you are thinking to settle out there, or any other country in fact.

Paul

[Moderator David@stives]

Paul

Where did you go for the demo, Was it in Wales ?

Dave

[Customers4u]

Yes in Wales,

Caerphilly

Paul

[JM123]

maybe, just maybe, they have a certain area where customers have already been informed that they will be carrying out demo's and will not have to pay for the clean?

I'm not saying this to put down Concept2o but if certain houses are having demo's carried out on them every week then a quick splash and dash is all that is needed to clean the windows - did you look at them before and after the clean?

3 bed semi-s in my area are £6 so 10 would be £60, and if it is a 2 man team then thats 6 mins per house, which while it is certainly possible, no-one would keep that up all day.  Don't forget as well the likelihood of having 100's of houses with easy access all close together is very low.

[windows_chepstow]

At £7 average for each 3 bed semi, this works out at £140 per hour, or £1,120 per 8 hour day.

Paul   

'Doorknockers'

Paul,

We've heard wild-claims like this in the past; on this forum.  Who was that guy selling a 'how to earn 100,000 pounds a year' book by cleaning windows? 

He used a similar calculation to yourself to try and sell.

A friend of mine can earn 400 pounds in one day.  Fact. 

So that's 400 pounds X 365 days of the year = crickey, he's earning 146,000 pounds a year.

(That's a similar calculation to the one you gave for a daily rate).

But - unfortunately for him - he can only do that one-day, every-other-month; if everything falls into place for him.

Also, as already pointed out, Concept 20 systems are similar to other systems in how they work.  Their advantage (I think) is the marketing aspect a prestige vehicle and system which may (or may not) give you.

I also agree with some other posters in this thread, just because you have this vehicle does not mean you will earn 100+ pounds per hour.  To turn-over that sort of money, you'll need a lot lot more about you than just a posh van and equipment.

The sort of thing you need is what money can't buy.

I only wish I had some of it!

[Mike_Boxall]

Hi Guys

Obviously, Paul has triggered off this debate by seeing a Concept 2o demo which included the van doing 10 houses in 1/2 hour. I don't think there is any dispute that this can be done on regular work (and anyone genuinely interested in buying a WFP system is welcome to see similar demos on genuine rounds with genuine customers paying genuine prices)

Unfortunately, Paul's calculations are entirely theoretical and, unfortunately, not practical.

As a Concept 2o distributor this is the formula we work with regard to 'typical' Concept 2o earnings based on an established residential round:

A 2-man team can clean an average of 10 houses per hour with a typical price of £7 per house. This equates to £70 per hour and, assuming 6 hours work in an 8 hour day, this gives a daily total of £420.

As we all know however, during the winter and sometimes the summer, it is not always possible to work a full five day week, mainly due to weather conditions. Erring on the side of caution, let's assume that on average you can only work 3 days out of 5 (taking into account things like holidays, collection times, unforseen circumstances, etc) you can still collect an average of £1260 per week (or £5040 per 4 weeks) reasonably easily.

Obviously, there are overheads to consider such as equipment finance costs, wages, fuel, admin, etc and there are lots of variables to consider that would affect your earnings. It may be that you have an entirely rural round with large distances between jobs and no estate work, it may be that your average price is less than £7, it may be that there are lots of competitors in your area, it may be you don't have 180 houses to do a week or it may be that you work on your own and just don't like hard work. There are many quite justifiable reasons why Concept 2o owners (or any other system owner for that matter) may not earn this type of money but then for every argument theres a counter argument. Many areas and one off jobs (such as conservatories) do attract higher prices, there are lots of areas that have no competition whatsoever, there are lots of ways of finding work easily (you can even pay someone to find it for you) and there are those that will work whatever hours it takes to get the job done. These are the people that are earning £40, £50, £60k and more with pure water window cleaning. They are out there, keeping themselves to themselves making good money day in, day out.

Can I guarantee you'll earn this sort of money if you buy a Concept 2o system from us? Of course not, because it's down to the operator not me. But, as I've said before, there are a growing number of business people who are seeing this as a sound opportunity, taking the time to look into it properly, making the investment and doing very well out of it, thankyou very much!

This is not for everyone. It is the professional end of the market for professional people. But don't disregard it because you think it can't be done - it can!

Regards

Mike

[Moderator David@stives]

slightly off topic Mike . I ut thought you might want to see this logo

http://www.slsonline.co.uk/

[Trademark WC]

Can I ask what makes the concept 20 system different to a normal WFP system?
I don't know alot about it and Im curious how you can clean 10 houses and hour? does this also work when you have a drought order and need to do the grounds by hand? also does the same standard of 10 houses an hour work for employees?

I must admit I know nothing about this system, but to be honest it all sounds a little stretched to say the least. I remember about a year and a half ago when the reach and wash system was really starting to get noticed and all the hype was having a sexy looking system in the back to show all the customers to win jobs? none of my customers care whats in the back they want em clean? and I'm not talkin about miss jones i'm talking 15k a month contracts?

I'm not against this system but please tell me what makes this different from all the other systems on the market? I'm not interested about the frilly bits bout looks and stuff as in my opinon thats more for the owner to get off on than the customer.

Rob

[Mike_Boxall]

slightly off topic Mike . I ut thought you might want to see this logo

http://www.slsonline.co.uk/

Thanks Dave..........

Rob

I don't fully understand why you'd be 'curios' about cleaning 10 houses an hour. Are you saying you don't believe it? I guess what you're also questioning, understandably, is how a Concept 2o system would benefit you instead of your existing system if you're not doing that sort of work already. We're not saying that just by having one you'll suddenly and significantly improve your efficiency (although there are obviously many features that lower water consumption, reduce running costs, etc) but as part of an overall package (including the branding) I think you'd be surprised at the differences between this system and others. Have you considered that the 'frilly' Concept 2o branding might be fundamental in building well planned, concentrated and profitable domestic rounds? If you have to drive 500 yards between customers then of course you can't do 10 an hour!

If you have £15k a month commercial contracts (did I read that correctly!?) then I guess domestic business isn't a main focus for you. If, on the other hand, you are interested in developing this side of the business you, or indeed anyone,  are welcome to give us a call to arrange a demo. If we're making it up you can come back here and tell everyone. If not, you might learn some extremely valuable lessons.

Regards

Mike

 

[Chris A]

Ok I've got a concept 20 900 lt and have had it for 3 months. I've seen all the posts about backwashing, flushing, changing resin, COST etc. I've filled the tanks 12 times now, 10800 litres and have not had to worry about anything apart from water pressure out of my  tap. TDS is still  000. That is what I wanted out of a water fed pole system, that is what I got, thanks to all the team at concept I'm making money where I never thought it would be made.

[mfwindowcleaner]

2 thing that im interested to know

1. How much for everything ?? (van,System etc.)
2. Are Mike B and Doorknocker on commision ....(not being cheeky..... Serious question)

[Trevor Knight]

Mike owns this site and is an Agent for Concept.

Doorknockers have nothing to do with this site other than as a member.