[Fieldsy]

Hi m8,

I've been reading your posts on the shut off set up you have using the float valve from machine mart. I tried using a cheap version horizontal float valve, but reading into it I think the pump has spiked the reed switch in the body and busted it.

I like the idea of the float switch you are using........but a bit confused on setup. I'm assuming you have the switch reverse wired so it cuts off when in the upright position. Yep, thats all clear.

Not sure about the conduit. Have you got circular conduit vertically installed through the top of the tank with a flange ( the ones you posted a link to) holding it in place. The cable for the float runs through this with enough slack for the float to "float" upright.

The bit I don't understand is how/where you have the second flange holding the cable ??

I have a 4040, so would all work ok. I have a stand alone external booster. I'm assuming I can cut the live and just link in two of the three wires on the float valve, so that the switch would basically turn "live" on and off ?

cheers for any input, Paul

[Fieldsy]

I meant gland not flange....lol

http://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-male-comp-gland-white-20mm-pack-of-2/45943

[Spruce]

Hi m8,

I've been reading your posts on the shut off set up you have using the float valve from machine mart. I tried using a cheap version horizontal float valve, but reading into it I think the pump has spiked the reed switch in the body and busted it.

I like the idea of the float switch you are using........but a bit confused on setup. I'm assuming you have the switch reverse wired so it cuts off when in the upright position. Yep, thats all clear.

Not sure about the conduit. Have you got circular conduit vertically installed through the top of the tank with a flange ( the ones you posted a link to) holding it in place. The cable for the float runs through this with enough slack for the float to "float" upright.

The bit I don't understand is how/where you have the second flange holding the cable ??

I have a 4040, so would all work ok. I have a stand alone external booster. I'm assuming I can cut the live and just link in two of the three wires on the float valve, so that the switch would basically turn "live" on and off ?

cheers for any input, Paul

Hi Fieldsy

The float switch has 3 wires so can be connected up to suit our application, switch off when full, switch on when water taken. A submersible works the other way round so you just connect up the other wire. (You only need 2 wires, live in and live out. The float switch comes with easy to read instructions that tell which wires to connect for our application.)

I've use the conduit and the 2 glands as a pivot for the cable. The top gland also holds the gland to the top of our IBC tank. The gland at the bottom of the piece of conduit holds the cable tight and allows it to pivot.  The gland at the top also holds the cable tight so will also help to keep the conduit firmly in each side of the glands and stop it falling apart.

I will try to make a sketch of what I mean and post it on this thread, but I won't be able to do it right now.

 

[Fieldsy]

Right, this is my very basic drawing from photoshop....lol.

This is what I would expect it to look like., with the mains lead going through the conduit and the float just rising up and down with the water level.

I'm having a blonde moment as I don't see where the other gland comes into play or why its needed............but I'm sure you can explain this Spruce,



cheers Paul

[Spruce]

Great diagram.

The conduit won't so through the gland to the outside of the tank. The conduit pushes into the bottom of the gland. I wrapped some PTFE tape around the conduit to make it a tight fit. The second gland is at the bottom of the conduit. Otherwise, you have the basic idea.

I was going to buy a couple of glands tomorrow (I need them for another project which has stalled at the moment) and set up a model and photograph it. My drawings are awful.

There are three wires in the float switch cable. They are brown,  black and blue.  ( You would connect the brown and black wires if your were connecting this up to a submersible pump.) The wires to be connected to fill the tank are brown and blue. Black isn't used. I used a 20 amp junction box to connect the wires up, similar to this

http://www.screwfix.com/p/20a-4-terminal-standard-junction-box-white/1239d

Using this meant I didn't have to cut the black cable.

I wired the + to the brown wire and the blue is the return to the solenoid (+), you would also connect your 230v booster pump's positive to the blue wire as well. So the solenoid and the booster pump switch on and then off at the same time. I have the supply from a normal 230 volt wall socket in the garage. I have the control to switch everything off at the plug if necessary.

I prefer to switch the positive on and off. It means that when the float switch switches the current off,  the solenoid valve (in my case) is 'dead.'  I also believe that its important to have an earth leakage/RCD at the plug - water and electricity don't make good bed fellows.   


The length of the conduit is around 300mm. The length of cable from the pivot (bottom gland)  will determine how full the IBC tank is when it switches off.  I have left a gap of around 200mm when the water level is full. This means I have been able to add an overflow pipe onto the side of the IBC tank just in case there is an issue. This pipe (some 1/2"  garden hose pipe) runs outside to the drain off the garage roof.  In 7 years the system has been in operation, this overflow has worked once due to a self generated issue.

this float switch will kick the r/o on when I have taken around 150 liters from the IBC tank. I find this is fine as the longer the r/o works the better.

[Fieldsy]

Excellent write up, thanks Spruce. All makes perfect sense, and cheers for the heads up on the wiring.

Could this not be used to go through the glands as its 20mm, then the wire could just be fed though the conduit, and the gland tightened either side of the top of the tank....................or am I missing the point ?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-conduit-heavy-gauge-20mm-x-2m-length-white/57073

[Spruce]

Components




Float switch instructions

[Spruce]

Float switch off - IBC tank full




Float switch on - IBC tank empty

[Spruce]

I had to go into Screwfix last night as I couldn't find any local builder's merchant stocking these.

I ordered 20mm glands for what I want but the 20mm conduit I have left over in the garage is too big to push in to these glands. So I would guess that you will need 25mm glands.  I used 20mm conduit as it has worked perfectly over the last 7 years. Back then I bought all the components for this from the electrical section of B & Q.

Basically, I have joined this float switch onto a 230v normally off solenoid valve. It is powered from a socket in the garage and connected up to a plug. This means that I can switch everything off at the socket and pull the plug out if I'm working on anything. (The garage is on a RCD unit so if anything goes wrong the electricity will be cut.)

So I connected the brown cable from the plug to the brown cable of the float switch. The blue cable then is connected to the positive of the solenoid valve. (Electrical practice is the wrap a small bit of brown insulation tape on the blue cable to the solenoid valve indicating that its live and not neutral as it is in standard  wiring. I have got away with this as I wired the float switch and cables into a 4 way junction box.)  I have wired everything so once the float switch cuts off, there is not current in the rest of the system.

I don't know what the EU regs are here in Britain with regards to putting the float switch on the negative side of a single phase  booster pump motor. I will ask an electrician this weekend and report back. (Putting the switch on the negative or neutral side of the motor helps to dampen the spark when switch contacts are made and broken ((on and off)). The down side is that the motor will be 'live' all the time but not running obviously.)

Both booster pump and solenoid valve must be wired up the same - all positives together and all neutral wires together.  The solenoid valve won't have an earth (well mine doesn't) but the motor will need to be earthed, so this needs to be accounted for as well.

[Fieldsy]

Wow !!! Excellent Spruce, thanks for that. Great write up and good pics. Off to get my bits this morning. Will let you know how I get on.  Got a local machine mart in southend, so off to there now.

cheers

Paul

[Spruce]

Glad to be of some help.

I drilled the hole in the upper section of the IBC tank toward the one side . My IBC tank is in the corner of the garage.  It is a bit of a devil getting to as the filler is in the middle. Climbing about on top of IBC tanks at my age isn't as easy as it used to be. You need to ensure that the float doesn't get caught on the 'lower level' of the IBC tank where the filler is located as it may prevent the float switch from switching off.

You may have to experiment with the length of the conduit and the length of the cable from the second gland to the float switch to suit your requirements. I needed to have the IBC tank as full as possible as we had 2 vans then and only a 450GPD r/o.

Now a days with a 4040 I wouldn't be too concerned if the IBC tank only filled up to 75 or 80% full as the r/o soon fills the IBC tank for the next user. Son in Law comes in the fill his 500 liter tank at anytime between lunch and 3pm and often when I get home in the afternoon the IBC tank is just about full for me to fill my van.

This combination of 4040 and float switch means that I can just leave the system and it works on it's own without any input from me.

In the early days I processed water directly into my then trailer tanks.  I started the r/o just before I went to bed and got up early to check the levels in the tank. It was very hit and miss.

[Fieldsy]

All done Spruce. Used slightly different option.

Went for this from Wickes, as its all complete, just drill a hole put it through and tighten.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Overflow-Stand-Pipe/p/420004   Works brilliant !!

Rather than a float valve from ebay, got a ball cock valve from Wickes......about £3.00, put an adapter on the feed and jubilee clipped the 1/2" supply on to it. I don't have a solenoid.

Heres some pics. I have the pump going off just before the ball cock kicks in. I have 1000 litre tank and it fills to about 900 like this, and all shuts off  . I could adjust it to get 1000, but being a little bit short by 100 litres is no probs.

See what you think,

All together £20 in total

[Spruce]

All done Spruce. Used slightly different option.

Went for this from Wickes, as its all complete, just drill a hole put it through and tighten.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Overflow-Stand-Pipe/p/420004   Works brilliant !!

Rather than a float valve from ebay, got a ball cock valve from Wickes......about £3.00, put an adapter on the feed and jubilee clipped the 1/2" supply on to it. I don't have a solenoid.

Heres some pics. I have the pump going off just before the ball cock kicks in. I have 1000 litre tank and it fills to about 900 like this, and all shuts off  . I could adjust it to get 1000, but being a little bit short by 100 litres is no probs.

See what you think,

All together £20 in total

Excellent! Good job.

[Fieldsy]

Thanks Spruce, appreciate all your input. If it hadn't been for your heads up on the float switch, I wouldn't even dreamed of doing it this way. So simple and effective, nice one m8. Hope I can return the help one day.

cheers Paul