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Robin Ray

Jaguar 8.4
« on: March 05, 2015, 08:15:08 am »
Just noticed solutions are now selling the Jag with 8.4 motors. Should be pretty powerful.

Lewis Newby

  • Posts: 353
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 10:00:42 am »
What would you estimate the figures?

Robin Ray

Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 01:18:02 pm »
About 280 cfm and 148" water lift about 10-11 hg

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 05:04:40 pm »

 Yeah , that would be about right for two parallel 8.4 , perhaps a bit more cfm .

 Look at the suction test i did last week , the 6.6 and the electro were bang on the figures supplied by the manufacturer , so the 8.4 should have 10.5 HG like the electro .

The figures supplied by that machines supplier would be less if they are not offering it for sale or more if they are  :D

Any way there are better designed machines to choose from no matter what vacs are in it .

Lewis Newby

  • Posts: 353
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2015, 05:06:48 pm »
But thats about the same as 2* 6.6 isnt it?

Robin Ray

Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 05:38:41 pm »
Two 6.6 should be 276 cfm and 131.5" of water lift or 9-10 hg so not far off only 4 ish cfm and 17 inches of water lift or 1 " hg more..

Robin Ray

Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 05:46:12 pm »
John

As you have a lift gauge ad many motors, when you get a minute can you test to see what the lift drop is if you run one single motor in parallel with two series motors. In theory it should drop to the lift of the single motor but that may not be the case in practice.

Thanks

Rob

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2015, 07:21:48 pm »
John

As you have a lift gauge ad many motors, when you get a minute can you test to see what the lift drop is if you run one single motor in parallel with two series motors. In theory it should drop to the lift of the single motor but that may not be the case in practice.

Thanks

Rob

Will do , il get onto it when i get a chance .
Im guessing u are thinking of what would happen if you add the airflex booster to your aux machine port ?

Robin Ray

Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2015, 08:59:20 pm »
Yes. I am going to make a booster to fit on the port. I plan to make a in series booster like yours however it will be interesting to see if only one extra motor gives some meaningful performance increase.

I am a little concerned about drawing 9000w from property using the 4 vac motors and a heater.

Lewis Newby

  • Posts: 353
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 09:42:53 pm »
Ask to plug in at thier neighbours ' my machine is so powerful it needs 2 homes to power it' its a unique selling point ;)

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 09:52:20 pm »
Yes. I am going to make a booster to fit on the port. I plan to make a in series booster like yours however it will be interesting to see if only one extra motor gives some meaningful performance increase.

I am a little concerned about drawing 9000w from property using the 4 vac motors and a heater.

I got a big roll of arctic 2.5mm three core  from an electrical place and some heavy duty plugs and double heads . I made a 30m ext cord which i use every day , and a 70m for the odd long run .
When you set up your machine at the property , twin vac and heater can go to the one room .
You just need to subtely plug in your ext cord elsewhere as far away as possible from that room , if you are doing upstairs ... run the cord to upstairs , if u have easy access to the kitchen and not bothering anyone go there ... or some other room a distance away .   That can be your booster power source .
You get used to doing it subtly without the watch of the owner , you dont want to wander round infront of the customer with a massive extension cord looking like you need to plug it in somewhere  , might freak them out or they will tell you there is four sockets in the room you are working in .  
there is heaps of electricity available for such a setup , i usually have air blowers on also . And if it just happens thats its too much hassle to source the extra circuit now and again , what odds you still have your twin vac setup .
Think of it like this also ,  a two man team using two heated portables in the one job is 12000w from the machines alone and it wouldnt be too unusual ?

Derek_Walker

  • Posts: 454
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2015, 09:42:24 pm »
I wonder if all these add on boosters and extra wires, actually make the purpose of having a portable redundant. After all, the beauty of having a portable, is the ease of being able to get it close to the job and transport it to inaccessible places. If you have to start taking lot's of extra bits and pieces with you, it adds to the time of setting up, and all those wires getting in the way.
These top of the range portables are powerful enough to be used as they are. There must come a time when it would be better and more convenient to get a truckmount as you have more heat and power without trying to short out the national grid. Just a thought. :)

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2015, 09:44:18 pm »
I thought solutions weren't fond of the 8.4 motors? It would be intesting to see if they do make a big difference, I wonder if one 8.4 could replace 2 x 5.7 standard motors.

Shaun

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 02:02:40 am »
I thought solutions weren't fond of the 8.4 motors? It would be intesting to see if they do make a big difference, I wonder if one 8.4 could replace 2 x 5.7 standard motors.

Shaun

Depends on the 5.7  .  Could it be as powerfull as two weak 1200w old school 5.7s ...perhaps .
 Could it be as power as two of the better Electros  ... no chance .
Infact the full amp 1800w electro 5.7 would whoop it in a suction test , just like the 1600w electro whooped the 6.6 .

john martin

  • Posts: 2699
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2015, 02:08:39 am »
I wonder if all these add on boosters and extra wires, actually make the purpose of having a portable redundant. After all, the beauty of having a portable, is the ease of being able to get it close to the job and transport it to inaccessible places. If you have to start taking lot's of extra bits and pieces with you, it adds to the time of setting up, and all those wires getting in the way.
These top of the range portables are powerful enough to be used as they are. There must come a time when it would be better and more convenient to get a truckmount as you have more heat and power without trying to short out the national grid. Just a thought. :)

I still use my boosted portable as a portable  , im not trying to emulate a truckmount . But the extra power means i can run fast at 250-300psi without dry srtokes , with improved cleaning results . And i can reach a bit further with no performance drop .
And i dont have a heap of wires ... just two for the machine ... another somewhere if u want the heater .


Darren O

  • Posts: 1322
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2015, 08:00:32 am »
Who sells 1600w or 1800w electros and would they fit in a Powerflight cheers Darren.

Robin Ray

Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2015, 09:05:28 am »
Not getting into a truckmount vs portable debate as it is clear that a TM is more powerful quicker and easier to use than a porty. However while considering getting a TM there are a number of other factors to getting one over the speed and efficiency.

1 The initial outlay is huge in comparison with a box with a couple of extra motors in.
2 The running costs in fuel and servicing are massive in comparison with customers electric
3 The noise is huge in comparison with electric motors
4 The entire van needs to be dedicated to the use of the TM
5 In certain areas only a porty or LM can be used
6 4 vac motors are now giving the same performance figures as a entry level TM (does the carpet know the difference)

I think for some such a Simon Gerrarrd a TM is the only solution. However with the advances in electric vac motors it would be mad not to consider the electric option, as it potentially can provide the savings of electric and the power of petrol.

Peter Sweeney

  • Posts: 534
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2015, 10:23:25 am »
1 So?
2 So?
3 Good
4 So?
5 Thats when you would use a portable.
6 Absolute rubbish.

Robin Ray

Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2015, 01:57:53 pm »
1 saves money = potentially more profit (the reason for work)
2 same as above
4 you have more flexibility
6 Mytee escape = 16 hg and 325 cfm vs Prochem Blazer =14 hg and 270 cfm (I make that 2 more hg and 55 more cfm) therefore not rubbish
another example could be just 4 normal 3 stage motors, two pairs of series motors running in paralle,l this would give 200 cfm and 17 hg compared with the cheapest entry level TM in the uk the Chemtex panther from woodbrigde commercial which gives 205 cfm and 14 hg ( i make that 5 cfm less and 3 hg more) therefore not rubbish again.

If you are happy with your TM and it works well for you that's great, but when looking at it from a pure performance point of view the electric motors are not far of and in some cases better. So for some one looking to spend £10000+ its worth considering electric first. If I can save £10000 i would be mad not to... wouldn't I?

Andrew Briscoe

  • Posts: 1311
Re: Jaguar 8.4
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2015, 02:22:23 pm »
I am not going to diss a portable, as used one for many years.
I can save 2 hours a day with my TM, it rinses faster, it dries faster..
it can earn me an extra £150 a day, so purchase costs and running costs are minimal
You hear of people having to change vac motors and pumps all the time, but rarely hear of people changing
blowers and pumps on a truckmount.
Had my machine serviced once by a company and managed the usual oil and filter changes myself as well as any
minor repairs.

Andrew