[Tom-01]

Love the add ons, but as vin says they need to be making at least what you would get on standard on the glass work, I am to get our normal hourly turnover + 50% for straightforward SFG and conny cleans - more for pressure washing work.

As a one man biz, it's more difficault to fit these in, but it really depends on you, I used to do add ons after the windows working until dark ( well past 7pm in summer ) and Saturdays.

Yes this was totally knackering, but easily doubled a weekly income, if not tripled and allowed be to invest in equipment,advertising etc.. And take on staff sooner than "just" window cleaning.

A little thought that kept me going some days was this ( esp. Where the customer, had a reg window cleaner who refused to do the conny roof or whatever ) I have just earnt in 1 hr cleaning this conny what takes their windy to earn in a year !

That's not being big headed, but the windy is happy collecting his £10 for 25 minutes work. And repeating that 12 times ( 12 visits, 12 lots of diesel, 12 lots of maybe waiting to get paid etc.. ) yet is not interested in that nice lump sum all in one day, cant understand it ?

Darran

Darran all respect to you as I know in last 4 years your growth has shot past mine (git  ) but until recently my thinking was like yours ref add ons and lump sums but my thinking changed when I sat back and realised I wanted to grow my business. Looking back the last 2 years have been ok for me but the add ons have slowed my growth down as they have distracted me.

Now we all only have so many hours in a working day and currently as a 1 man band I have to utilise em long term as best I can so when I realised that if I canvass for a few hours during week and every Saturday instead of doing add ons then the following is more than possible

5 hours canvassing / leaflet dropping a week will on average give me at least 2 to 3 new customers a week @ say £12 average

48 weeks x 2 new customers per week = 96 a year  x £12 = £1152 x 12 months = £13824 (after a full 12 months of course)
48 weeks x 3 new customers per week = 144 a year x £12 = £1728 x 12 months = £20736 (as above)

Bearing in mind im 5 years into the job Im embarrassed that the above took me until last month to realise  

Yes takes commitment to get out there and do it every Saturday / after a days graft on the glass but just keep seeing that second van in my minds eye

Will start rolling out my leafleting programme in April of 6000 leaflets a month which with a 0.2% will give me another 12 customers a month from leaflets but will canvass area after the drop so will bring up numbers.

Like I say you have done brilliantly with your growth so not a pop in any way shape or form where as I haven't so gonna try it differently for rest of this year with no more add ons (and sore shoulders  )

I think the difference is that Darran has people working for him, therefore it makes sense with the upselling of additional services.

If I was just working on my own I would probably just stick with window cleaning, in fact I haven't done many pressure washing myself at all and not many gutter cleans either - I get the guys to do the majority of that work.

By offering additional services to window cleaning it really helps with cash flow, this cannot be underestimated. Plus you can treble your income from one customer, I think I've posted it on here before but I'll do it again:

A customer I've got is £30 4 weekly on window cleaning = £390 per year
Once a year gutters cleared, GFS cleaned = £350
Patio cleaned once a year = £310

So instead of one account bringing in £390 per year it brings in £1,050. And the pressure cleaning and gutter jobs are paid in full - thus benefitting cash flow.

And whilst the gutters or patio are being cleaned other work elsewhere is getting done.
For example last week we did 3 gutter cleaning jobs, which in total took about 6.5 hours, whilst they were getting done all the regular window cleaning work was getting done. The gutters bought in an additional £800. I wouldn't have been able to do all that by myself. The window cleaning money will take a while to drip through, but the gutter cleans have all paid.

It makes more business sense to have 300 customers with a much higher earning average than 600 customers with a lower one.

It depends on how you want to run your business really. I'm not a window cleaner who offers additional services. I run a business which provides exterior cleaning services, with window cleaning being one of them - the beauty with window cleaning is it's regular, repeat business.

Tom

I agree with some of that. You have done well from what I have seen, but I reckon the key to having a sustainable, predictable and in the long term a saleable business is to have regular contracted work. I use the term contracted loosely.

To take your example, in terms of planning for growth I would much rather have 600 lower earning customers which provide me with a pretty much predictable income than 300 from whom the income is uncertain. That is why I have felt confident to take on a full time member of staff at a very good hourly rate.

True, that's a good point. We occasionally have days where we don't have a full day for two people, which isn't a massive problem as the other work more than covers it. However I do see the benefit of every single day full of window cleaning work to be done, which is getting there. The other jobs help a lot with cash flow. I haven't built a window cleaning round and then added other services, I've done it all together, which is both good and bad.

How's it going with your employee? May I ask what you pay him per week?

Thanks
Tom

[8weekly]

Love the add ons, but as vin says they need to be making at least what you would get on standard on the glass work, I am to get our normal hourly turnover + 50% for straightforward SFG and conny cleans - more for pressure washing work.

As a one man biz, it's more difficault to fit these in, but it really depends on you, I used to do add ons after the windows working until dark ( well past 7pm in summer ) and Saturdays.

Yes this was totally knackering, but easily doubled a weekly income, if not tripled and allowed be to invest in equipment,advertising etc.. And take on staff sooner than "just" window cleaning.

A little thought that kept me going some days was this ( esp. Where the customer, had a reg window cleaner who refused to do the conny roof or whatever ) I have just earnt in 1 hr cleaning this conny what takes their windy to earn in a year !

That's not being big headed, but the windy is happy collecting his £10 for 25 minutes work. And repeating that 12 times ( 12 visits, 12 lots of diesel, 12 lots of maybe waiting to get paid etc.. ) yet is not interested in that nice lump sum all in one day, cant understand it ?

Darran

Darran all respect to you as I know in last 4 years your growth has shot past mine (git  ) but until recently my thinking was like yours ref add ons and lump sums but my thinking changed when I sat back and realised I wanted to grow my business. Looking back the last 2 years have been ok for me but the add ons have slowed my growth down as they have distracted me.

Now we all only have so many hours in a working day and currently as a 1 man band I have to utilise em long term as best I can so when I realised that if I canvass for a few hours during week and every Saturday instead of doing add ons then the following is more than possible

5 hours canvassing / leaflet dropping a week will on average give me at least 2 to 3 new customers a week @ say £12 average

48 weeks x 2 new customers per week = 96 a year  x £12 = £1152 x 12 months = £13824 (after a full 12 months of course)
48 weeks x 3 new customers per week = 144 a year x £12 = £1728 x 12 months = £20736 (as above)

Bearing in mind im 5 years into the job Im embarrassed that the above took me until last month to realise  

Yes takes commitment to get out there and do it every Saturday / after a days graft on the glass but just keep seeing that second van in my minds eye

Will start rolling out my leafleting programme in April of 6000 leaflets a month which with a 0.2% will give me another 12 customers a month from leaflets but will canvass area after the drop so will bring up numbers.

Like I say you have done brilliantly with your growth so not a pop in any way shape or form where as I haven't so gonna try it differently for rest of this year with no more add ons (and sore shoulders  )

I think the difference is that Darran has people working for him, therefore it makes sense with the upselling of additional services.

If I was just working on my own I would probably just stick with window cleaning, in fact I haven't done many pressure washing myself at all and not many gutter cleans either - I get the guys to do the majority of that work.

By offering additional services to window cleaning it really helps with cash flow, this cannot be underestimated. Plus you can treble your income from one customer, I think I've posted it on here before but I'll do it again:

A customer I've got is £30 4 weekly on window cleaning = £390 per year
Once a year gutters cleared, GFS cleaned = £350
Patio cleaned once a year = £310

So instead of one account bringing in £390 per year it brings in £1,050. And the pressure cleaning and gutter jobs are paid in full - thus benefitting cash flow.

And whilst the gutters or patio are being cleaned other work elsewhere is getting done.
For example last week we did 3 gutter cleaning jobs, which in total took about 6.5 hours, whilst they were getting done all the regular window cleaning work was getting done. The gutters bought in an additional £800. I wouldn't have been able to do all that by myself. The window cleaning money will take a while to drip through, but the gutter cleans have all paid.

It makes more business sense to have 300 customers with a much higher earning average than 600 customers with a lower one.

It depends on how you want to run your business really. I'm not a window cleaner who offers additional services. I run a business which provides exterior cleaning services, with window cleaning being one of them - the beauty with window cleaning is it's regular, repeat business.

Tom

I agree with some of that. You have done well from what I have seen, but I reckon the key to having a sustainable, predictable and in the long term a saleable business is to have regular contracted work. I use the term contracted loosely.

To take your example, in terms of planning for growth I would much rather have 600 lower earning customers which provide me with a pretty much predictable income than 300 from whom the income is uncertain. That is why I have felt confident to take on a full time member of staff at a very good hourly rate.

True, that's a good point. We occasionally have days where we don't have a full day for two people, which isn't a massive problem as the other work more than covers it. However I do see the benefit of every single day full of window cleaning work to be done, which is getting there. The other jobs help a lot with cash flow. I haven't built a window cleaning round and then added other services, I've done it all together, which is both good and bad.

How's it going with your employee? May I ask what you pay him per week?

Thanks
Tom

No problem. £400 a week - whatever the weather. It's going great so far. We are 6 weeks in now. Without going over old ground, and stirring up jelly boots,  I hope by the middle of summer to be where your turnover is in regular 8 weekly work. I'm not all that far off but from being over full, I am now around 70% full so need more work. Hence now doing one offs and add ons.

[Smudger]

No offence Ian, I'm happy to discuss most aspects of biz, along the way I've made mistakes, tried to learn from them, I am surprised with your background you can't upsell on a regular basis, for me I encompassed the "add ons" along with reg window cleaning, priority was to get the solid base of regular customers first, but never turning away other work, as said you need to do long days, weekends, but you can still get in canvassing etc... But taking this work on allows you to get staff, they go off and do reg cleans, you pop out and knock off a conny roof, it's a fine balance, and fundamentally a good solid round is what's needed, but keep building as IMO a sole trader is a lifestyle career ( a very good one ) but the dangers of being on your own are illness, old age, family problems all of which will kill your income overnight.

Darran

[Tom-01]

Love the add ons, but as vin says they need to be making at least what you would get on standard on the glass work, I am to get our normal hourly turnover + 50% for straightforward SFG and conny cleans - more for pressure washing work.

As a one man biz, it's more difficault to fit these in, but it really depends on you, I used to do add ons after the windows working until dark ( well past 7pm in summer ) and Saturdays.

Yes this was totally knackering, but easily doubled a weekly income, if not tripled and allowed be to invest in equipment,advertising etc.. And take on staff sooner than "just" window cleaning.

A little thought that kept me going some days was this ( esp. Where the customer, had a reg window cleaner who refused to do the conny roof or whatever ) I have just earnt in 1 hr cleaning this conny what takes their windy to earn in a year !

That's not being big headed, but the windy is happy collecting his £10 for 25 minutes work. And repeating that 12 times ( 12 visits, 12 lots of diesel, 12 lots of maybe waiting to get paid etc.. ) yet is not interested in that nice lump sum all in one day, cant understand it ?

Darran

Darran all respect to you as I know in last 4 years your growth has shot past mine (git  ) but until recently my thinking was like yours ref add ons and lump sums but my thinking changed when I sat back and realised I wanted to grow my business. Looking back the last 2 years have been ok for me but the add ons have slowed my growth down as they have distracted me.

Now we all only have so many hours in a working day and currently as a 1 man band I have to utilise em long term as best I can so when I realised that if I canvass for a few hours during week and every Saturday instead of doing add ons then the following is more than possible

5 hours canvassing / leaflet dropping a week will on average give me at least 2 to 3 new customers a week @ say £12 average

48 weeks x 2 new customers per week = 96 a year  x £12 = £1152 x 12 months = £13824 (after a full 12 months of course)
48 weeks x 3 new customers per week = 144 a year x £12 = £1728 x 12 months = £20736 (as above)

Bearing in mind im 5 years into the job Im embarrassed that the above took me until last month to realise  

Yes takes commitment to get out there and do it every Saturday / after a days graft on the glass but just keep seeing that second van in my minds eye

Will start rolling out my leafleting programme in April of 6000 leaflets a month which with a 0.2% will give me another 12 customers a month from leaflets but will canvass area after the drop so will bring up numbers.

Like I say you have done brilliantly with your growth so not a pop in any way shape or form where as I haven't so gonna try it differently for rest of this year with no more add ons (and sore shoulders  )

I think the difference is that Darran has people working for him, therefore it makes sense with the upselling of additional services.

If I was just working on my own I would probably just stick with window cleaning, in fact I haven't done many pressure washing myself at all and not many gutter cleans either - I get the guys to do the majority of that work.

By offering additional services to window cleaning it really helps with cash flow, this cannot be underestimated. Plus you can treble your income from one customer, I think I've posted it on here before but I'll do it again:

A customer I've got is £30 4 weekly on window cleaning = £390 per year
Once a year gutters cleared, GFS cleaned = £350
Patio cleaned once a year = £310

So instead of one account bringing in £390 per year it brings in £1,050. And the pressure cleaning and gutter jobs are paid in full - thus benefitting cash flow.

And whilst the gutters or patio are being cleaned other work elsewhere is getting done.
For example last week we did 3 gutter cleaning jobs, which in total took about 6.5 hours, whilst they were getting done all the regular window cleaning work was getting done. The gutters bought in an additional £800. I wouldn't have been able to do all that by myself. The window cleaning money will take a while to drip through, but the gutter cleans have all paid.

It makes more business sense to have 300 customers with a much higher earning average than 600 customers with a lower one.

It depends on how you want to run your business really. I'm not a window cleaner who offers additional services. I run a business which provides exterior cleaning services, with window cleaning being one of them - the beauty with window cleaning is it's regular, repeat business.

Tom

I agree with some of that. You have done well from what I have seen, but I reckon the key to having a sustainable, predictable and in the long term a saleable business is to have regular contracted work. I use the term contracted loosely.

To take your example, in terms of planning for growth I would much rather have 600 lower earning customers which provide me with a pretty much predictable income than 300 from whom the income is uncertain. That is why I have felt confident to take on a full time member of staff at a very good hourly rate.

True, that's a good point. We occasionally have days where we don't have a full day for two people, which isn't a massive problem as the other work more than covers it. However I do see the benefit of every single day full of window cleaning work to be done, which is getting there. The other jobs help a lot with cash flow. I haven't built a window cleaning round and then added other services, I've done it all together, which is both good and bad.

How's it going with your employee? May I ask what you pay him per week?

Thanks
Tom

No problem. £400 a week - whatever the weather. It's going great so far. We are 6 weeks in now. Without going over old ground, and stirring up jelly boots,  I hope by the middle of summer to be where your turnover is in regular 8 weekly work. I'm not all that far off but from being over full, I am now around 70% full so need more work. Hence now doing one offs and add ons.

Awesome stuff mate. So is he employed and salaried, paid holiday etc?  Do you do a base level pay + bonus or just the rate? Also are VAT reg, flat rate?

The great thing as well is if you have a lot of quotes to do, work to catch up on etc you can do it during a day and still be earning money (when you're confident to let him out on his own). A company I worked for once had a 'business coach' in and he said that the main thing that holds a business back is the owner. Having to be involved in everything. IF you can find someone who takes on more responsibility it's amazing how far you can actually go. Obviously keep an eye on costs etc as well, as they do add up, which is why cash flow is key.

And 'jelly boots' ha ha

[Tom-01]

No offence Ian, I'm happy to discuss most aspects of biz, along the way I've made mistakes, tried to learn from them, I am surprised with your background you can't upsell on a regular basis, for me I encompassed the "add ons" along with reg window cleaning, priority was to get the solid base of regular customers first, but never turning away other work, as said you need to do long days, weekends, but you can still get in canvassing etc... But taking this work on allows you to get staff, they go off and do reg cleans, you pop out and knock off a conny roof, it's a fine balance, and fundamentally a good solid round is what's needed, but keep building as IMO a sole trader is a lifestyle career ( a very good one ) but the dangers of being on your own are illness, old age, family problems all of which will kill your income overnight.

Darran

Totally agree with that.

And also it's nice to have a holiday whilst work is still getting done and money is being earned.

Darran for you the 'aggro' that comes with employing a number of people, expenses etc - is it all worth it?

Thanks
Tom

[Smudger]

Hmmmmmmmm....

Yes, I have to say, we have been extremely lucky with the 'lads' ( ages range from 22 to 61 ) they all work hard, hit the hourly rate required, help out at short notice, that's not to say we had some duffers along the way.

A good team is key, they all go out on their own, leaves be to "dream" about bigger stuff  I rarely go out for the day to day stuff now,

With multiple vans, equipment, planning, canvassing you can't do it all yourself.

So although you have some bad days, and you can't always see the wood for the trees, employing is the way to go ( but it's not for everyone )

Darran

[Mick Kent]

I gave up on addons and agree with vin about hourly rates and seeing pound signs with a big "extra jobs" as whats the point earning £250 doing a patio for the day when the same can be done with regular window cleaning customers where your would have a full months work so the addon would just get in the way!. I prefere each van to hit the dayly target day in day out with me knowing i have the work for the day against the hassle of chasing addons hense canvassing and canvassing, compacting and compacting which im proud to say has worked verey well for my business, its a shame as i did spend a fortune on equipment with addons but found it a waste of time, i tried and failed with carpet cleaning and pressure washing as couldnt make the same money as regular cleaning of windows, the main pain was no time to do the extra jobs and when we did we had to rush as the windows earn such a good hourly rate that its hard to match.
We all work different, some like to break the month up with extra jobs, others like doing just 1 thing, i like to concerntrate on what i know best which is regular repeat window cleaning work, however we work the main thing is the pound notes we recieve at the end of the month. Fair play to the guys who have made it work and succeded with offering the extra services sadly i faled miserably.

[dazmond]

For me add ons are f/s/g, conny roofs and solar panels using existing equipment.

I have a good solid base of customers which provide a good income all year round (maintenance window cleaning).add ons are mainly spring/summer jobs when I have a bit more time to fit them in.i enjoy the change and often earn a bit more than my normal hourly rate.

Pressure washing, gutter vacs etc are not for me as I've only got a certain amount of time and would be a waste of money imo

Maximising income from my customers with existing equipment is what it's all about for me.

[8weekly]

Loads of good points.

Tom, yes, it's a proper job. Holiday pay. No bonus though. There will be a rise up to £100 a day when out on his own full time. No, not VAT reg just yet and won't hit it before going limited in April, but expect to before end of first year trading as limited. The VAT clock gets set back to zero when the limited company starts which is a relief and gives me more time.