[8weekly]

l

Seriously mate you really are in a world of your own, you don't need a second car or a van to clean using WFP
either, did you ever hear of a trailer system.
So its more than possible to clean for £500 a year using WFP methods.

'course it is.  And a sole trader can't earn more than £100 a day either. 

What a sole trader can earn in a day has nothing to do with this topic, you need to stay focused mate.

er, yes it does becaused the amount you spend will be influenced by how much work you have. If you work one day a week with a couple of barrels out of the family car you can probably do it. If you are cleaning 15 - 20 houses a day and turning over £200-£350 a day ( depending where you are in the country) you can not operate for £500 a year.

[Dave Willis]

My water bill alone comes to £1300 a year. Admittedly that includes household usage. On top of that there's probably £150 of resin maybe £100 for membranes. £200 at least for pole sections £50 for a couple of brushes. Just spent £120 on clothing, £100 on footwear, £380 on mobile phone, £200 on bits and bobs (hose connectors, hose viakal, upvc cleaner etc) leisure battery if you use one £80? probably replace a vac £130 Gas could be £750 a year if you use hot. Website hosting, leafleting if you do it advertising? Then there's all the van costs on top.

[SeanK]

Dave this isn't a thread on a window cleaning expenses over the year its a thread on what extra WFP
will cost you and how much work needed to pull them costs back.
There are guys out there with high insurance costs and with a flashy vans cleaning using traditional methods that are paying £10k or more a year and there will be guys doing WFP on the cheap.
Guys like 8weekly seem to be under the impression that you can only make good money in this game if your a WFP
cleaner and that all traditional guys are low paid cleaners working from the family car.
So for the sake of debate lets say your a serious traditional window cleaner who has invested in a van and are thinking
of converting to WFP.
A good DIY system let say £1000, a couple of good poles lets say an SLX18 and an SLX30 lets say £700.
Now lets say maintaining it over 5 years cost another £800.
So in total over five years you are talking about £500 a year for a guy who hasn't metered water, lets double it for a guy
who has.
At the end of the day you would be hard pushed to put your WFP bill into the thousands unless you where wasting a
fortune.
So even at the higher end of expense your talking about £20 a week or two £10 properties to upgrade to a safer
method.
Even if it only slightly quicker it would still make sense to convert.

[SeanK]

Just to be clear guys I'm not saying your not a serious window cleaner if you are working traditionally from the
family car as there are plenty of successful guys who do.
I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.

[Window Lickers]

I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.

Sean this isn't a thread about about having a van and being classed a successful shiner.

As you said previously you need to stay focused.

My water bill for supply and sewerage is £140 a month. That alone has just wiped your £500 a year figure off the face of the earth threefold and then some compared to trad.

[8weekly]

Just to be clear guys I'm not saying your not a serious window cleaner if you are working traditionally from the
family car as there are plenty of successful guys who do.
I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.

If you work full time WFP, you can not work from the family saloon. You need a dedicated vehicle, or as you pointed out a trailer. That means, tax, mot, insurance, servicing, tyres etc. That's before you get to the cost of WFP equipment. If you are trad, you can work from the family car. Your notion of £500 a year is totally ridiculous.

[Tom-01]

Just to be clear guys I'm not saying your not a serious window cleaner if you are working traditionally from the
family car as there are plenty of successful guys who do.
I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.

If you work full time WFP, you can not work from the family saloon. You need a dedicated vehicle, or as you pointed out a trailer. That means, tax, mot, insurance, servicing, tyres etc. That's before you get to the cost of WFP equipment. If you are trad, you can work from the family car. Your notion of £500 a year is totally ridiculous.

Maybe he meant to say its £500 a MONTH? That would be closer to reality.

[Window Lickers]

Give him one thing, if he believes it can be done on £500 a year he's sure got Vision 

[Walter Mitty]

The difference in my own expenses is fairly significant.

Metered water bill, renting a small storage unit where water is filtered/items stored (a small rented garage was sufficient previously but it has no water or electric), much higher vehicle running costs due to using a much bigger payload van and insuring as a modified vehicle (not to mention the extra diesel required to lug weight around), Water filtering kit, much more expensive tool replacements.

Take them one at a time with estimations or annual averages if needed

1)WFP Metered water  £350 p.a.  ,         Trad £0 as taken from unmetered domestic supply.

2) WFP rent  £1,650 p.a.   ,    Trad c. £500 p.a. (with less for it though)

3) WFP vehicle running  fuel £2.2k , insurance £500, repairs/servicing £1k
Trad  fuel £1.5k ,  insurance £300 , repairs servicing £400

4) WFP  Water filtering items (RO, DI, pre filters) £250 p.a.        Trad £0

WFP other tools/items such as poles, microfibres/scrim, connectors, upgrades backpack and misc.  I will have a stab at £300 a year though it's hard to average. - Trad maybe £70 a year if including replacing a ladder every few years.

So I've got £6,250 for WFP and  £2,770 for trad - a difference of £3,480.  However, my situation is exacerbated by WFP forcing me to rent a small unit.  With trad, although I rented a garage, I could have dispensed with that if pushed.  If I had been able to filter water at home, I would have saved £1,650 - so the difference would have been more like £1,800.

Also, my figures above make no real provision for some of the *initial* outlay.  Obviously total accuracy is nigh on impossible as things fluctuate year to year. Additionally, although my outgoings are est. £3,480 higher, my extra turnover from WFP over trad dwarfs that figure.
Anyway, I think it's fairer to go with the £1,800 p a difference as most guys will filter water from home.

[Window Lickers]

£350 per annum water bill,, lucky you!

[Walter Mitty]

£350 per annum water bill,, lucky you!

That is only the business use in a separate place from home.  My domestic supply is about £130 a year because it is not possible to meter my water (I'm in a flat where it would need three meters to isolate my use from my neighbours').  I do pay over the odds for domestic supply.
Also, I expect to be paying more like £450 a year for business water once I have taken on more work in the next few months.

[SeanK]

I'm just pandering to the guys who think you need a van to be classed as a successful shiner.

Sean this isn't a thread about about having a van and being classed a successful shiner.

As you said previously you need to stay focused.

My water bill for supply and sewerage is £140 a month. That alone has just wiped your £500 a year figure off the face of the earth threefold and then some compared to trad.

Mate stop willy waving and be honest, how many litres of water does that £140 a month produce and how would going from
traditional to WFP add 9000 miles of traveling to a window cleaner working on his own.
For gods sake it would be cheaper to buy the water already filtered if it costing you that in water alone.
Yes I am lucky because I can make pure very cheaply so my WFP costs are very low but my god £500 a month just to supply one
person with pure and apply it to a window maybe you would be better questioning a silly comment like that.
 

[Window Lickers]

lol willy waving - bugger off.



The £140 a month was a figure off the top of my head whilst I was on the iPad, the screenshot from above is what is paid. Its £95 a month. Still its twice what youre thinking and its just for water.

[SeanK]

Dazmond while I agree with what you say above there's no reason why WFP should cost you an extra £2500
a year in expenses unless your comparing a beer money cleaner to a full time WFP cleaner.
If you leave out the vehicle then WFP costs me just over £550 a year and that's with a professionally fitted system.

System fitted with a couple of poles £2500.
Over 10 years....
Two R.O. membranes £500
SLX poles , brushes and fittings £1000
Pre filters, batteries and a replacement pump lets say another £1000.
11 litres of resin will last me over a year and with a new membrane I would get two so lets say £500
That's £5500 over 10 years or £550 a year and two be honest I'm sure it could be done cheaper.
Even with metered water its not going to add a massive difference to your yearly bill.

Here's the figures again I am eight years into this ten year plan and its on target to come in under this figure.
I don't pay extra for water as I'm not metered and need a vehicle so it might as well be a van.
So go on instead of wally waving tell me where my figures are wrong.
Again not total window cleaning expenses just what it costs me to clean using WFP.

[SeanK]

That's just a bill it doesn't tell me if its a household bill and if so what percentage of it is down to your business or does it supply more than one operator.

[Window Lickers]

Sean, I cant be arsed mate. Seriously. One reason is you start to make stupid accusations about willy waving and I simply cant be arsed to thrash it out on a Saturday afternoon with someone in that manner.

Also, the Vision threads show that you are like a dog with a bone when you get going on a topic that you disagree with. You simply have to prove your point and dont stop until you've been proved correct. Not that that happened, people just tired of you and shutup. You're like a dripping tap. And Ive better things to be doing with my time than arguing the toss with someone on an internet forum the ins and outs of my business compared to theirs.

That's just a bill it doesn't tell me if its a household bill and if so what percentage of it is down to your business or does it supply more than one operator.

Shut up - youre beginning to look sad.

[SeanK]

Sean, I cant be arsed mate. Seriously. One reason is you start to make stupid accusations about willy waving and I simply cant be arsed to thrash it out on a Saturday afternoon with someone in that manner.

Also, the Vision threads show that you are like a dog with a bone when you get going on a topic that you disagree with. You simply have to prove your point and dont stop until you've been proved correct. Not that that happened, people just tired of you and shutup. You're like a dripping tap. And Ive better things to be doing with my time than arguing the toss with someone on an internet forum the ins and outs of my business compared to theirs.

That's just a bill it doesn't tell me if its a household bill and if so what percentage of it is down to your business or does it supply more than one operator.

Shut up - youre beginning to look sad.

Very good Mate accuse somebody of being wrong and then take the huff when they try to reply, yes I will agree the
willy waving comment even though it wasn't really directed at you was uncalled for.

[Joey Eastwood]

jakey u been causing trouble whilst iv been away?? good lad. i better not say where iv been dont want to be accused of a willy waver

[PoleKing]

jakey u been causing trouble whilst iv been away?? good lad. i better not say where iv been dont want to be accused of a willy waver

Been to a nudey beach, Joey?