[Mist A Bit]

Costs differ when it comes to WFP, limited access to a water supply and metered water will make it more expensive
than for somebody who can make pure at will and isn't metered.
But to be honest even with a van mount its far from an expensive way to clean windows.
Is it a better way of making money, of course its not some people are quick at WFP methods and some are slow
the same goes for traditional methods.
Plus both methods have their pros and cons.
One of the most successful shiners in my area employees about 20 full time traditional cleaners and some part time guys
if you where to tell him he would make more money converting to WFP he would laugh in your face.
For me using WFP is about keeping myself in one piece and nothing else.

i guess he is a millionaire if on proper prices

[PoleKing]

Costs differ when it comes to WFP, limited access to a water supply and metered water will make it more expensive
than for somebody who can make pure at will and isn't metered.
But to be honest even with a van mount its far from an expensive way to clean windows.
Is it a better way of making money, of course its not some people are quick at WFP methods and some are slow
the same goes for traditional methods.
Plus both methods have their pros and cons.
One of the most successful shiners in my area employees about 20 full time traditional cleaners and some part time guys
if you where to tell him he would make more money converting to WFP he would laugh in your face.
For me using WFP is about keeping myself in one piece and nothing else.

i guess he is a millionaire if on proper prices

Doubt it.
There's a fella on the 'work wanted/offered' section getting a heap of grief for paying his lads £40 a DAY!
He see's nothing wrong in paying ladder monkeys with no skills that as a wage.
I see that as criminal.

[SeanK]

Costs differ when it comes to WFP, limited access to a water supply and metered water will make it more expensive
than for somebody who can make pure at will and isn't metered.
But to be honest even with a van mount its far from an expensive way to clean windows.
Is it a better way of making money, of course its not some people are quick at WFP methods and some are slow
the same goes for traditional methods.
Plus both methods have their pros and cons.
One of the most successful shiners in my area employees about 20 full time traditional cleaners and some part time guys
if you where to tell him he would make more money converting to WFP he would laugh in your face.
For me using WFP is about keeping myself in one piece and nothing else.

i guess he is a millionaire if on proper prices

I honestly don't know what he's worth but would guess he's a millionaire as he been going for about 25 years.
As for what he pays his employees well they seem to stick with him so their wages cant be all that bad.

[SeanK]

If you leave out the vehicle then

  Why would you leave out the vehicle.

exactly!why would you leave out your van?mine is specifically just used for work.the 5k a year includes ALL REPAIRS,PARTS,ETC,TAX,MOT,INSURANCE AND THE COST OF BUYING THE VAN(over a 5 year period).

poles,brushes,connectors,resin,water bill,pumps,hose and reels,workwear,detergent,rubbers,cloths,phone/internet,cleaner planner,stationary,ink,leisure batteries,vinyl wrap and signwriting etc,etc

I didn't include the vehicle because when you stated that WFP was costing you an extra £2500 a year you didn't say
what vehicle you where using when cleaning using traditional methods.
Plus before making statements like this you need to work out what you actually are paying extra by converting to WFP as
a few thing on your list would have still been expenses when you where traditional.

[Window Lickers]

Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.

If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.

[Jonny 87]

Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.

If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.

I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.

I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.

I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.

No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.

[Dave Willis]

My fuel costs would be close to that figure then more on top again. Usually 5k or above most years. No marketing costs.

[8weekly]

Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.

If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.

I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.

I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.

I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.

No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.

Got to watch out for the bull poop on here. 

[Dave Willis]

In what way?

[Window Lickers]

Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.

If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.

I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.

I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.

I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.

No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.

Got to watch out for the bull poop on here. 

Congratulations on your anniversary btw. Top marks

[dazmond]

i know what seans on about.he means the cost of wfp NOT the rest of your expenses that would you have anyway if you were on the ladders.

my fuel costs are around £700 a year which would be roughly the same if i was trad only.

[Window Lickers]

My fuel costs are £2500 a year.

When I was trad they were less than half that.

[SeanK]

i know what seans on about.he means the cost of wfp NOT the rest of your expenses that would you have anyway if you were on the ladders.

my fuel costs are around £700 a year which would be roughly the same if i was trad only.

Exactly Dazmond I'm not talking about expenses, I'm talking about the difference in costs when doing this job
using WFP methods compared to using traditional methods.
A young new driver with a claim on his record could be paying three grand a year in insurance alone but that wouldn't
be a cost because he's WFP its a cost because he needs a vehicle no matter what method he chooses to use.

[SeanK]

Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.

If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.

I was thinking similar. Either that or I'm doing something drastically wrong.

I'd say I'm just an average sole trader window cleaner, and my costs every year are considerably higher than £2,500.

I'd be happy with double that figure to be honest.

No way could I run my business on £500 a year WFP expenses.

Got to watch out for the bull poop on here. 

Why not ? look at my list and tell me where my calculations are wrong, if anything they are slightly over the top.

[SeanK]

Thing is Sean your list of expenses spread over a ten year time span is simply laughable, sorry. It's list alright but it's the bare minimum you might envisage what your costs might be. In reality they'll be drastically different to that. Equipment breaks down and needs replacing. Better equipment comes on the market and we upgrade. Your estimates for how long your equipment will last is generous to say the least.

If you took your figures to a bank, let's say you were looking for a business loan, they'd laugh you out of town with those projections.

No they wouldn't as most if not all businesses base their expenses over a 5 to 10 year period as its the only way to get an accurate
figure.
Your could buy a new 4040 membrane this year at £250 but it doesn't mean you will need that expense every year so you
would need to tell the bank what they should cost you if they work for as long as they are intended to work which is about five years.
You might only get one year if your unlucky but you cant know that in advance.
I'm going about eight years and have not cut corners on any equipment that Iv bought and I can honestly say that WFP is costing
me less than £500 a year.

[Window Lickers]

If that's the case fair play. It isn't for me though. The difference in my fuel costs alone are double that. How long were you cleaning 100% trad?

[Window Lickers]

Before you ask why are fuel costs increased its because carrying 650 litres of water costs more than carrying a bucket of water. But mostly because working WFP means you get more done in a day - thus more miles are covered.

I used to do 7,000 miles a year trad now I do 16,000 a year. That amount of works couldnt be done trad.

[SeanK]

If that's the case fair play. It isn't for me though. The difference in my fuel costs alone are double that. How long were you cleaning 100% trad?

What isn't for you ? we both clean using WFP methods I'm just pointing out the difference in costs using both methods,
again I'm not talking about expenses as these will differ in many ways to each and every one of us depending on how you choose to advertise how compact your round is what vehicle you choose to buy and so on.

[Window Lickers]

That level of expense isn't how it is for me is what I mean.


How long were you working solely trad Sean?

[SeanK]

That level of expense isn't how it is for me is what I mean.


How long were you working solely trad Sean?

I never worked solely trad Matt, I started up as a WFP cleaner but would do about 5% of my work using traditional
methods only if its ground work and it doesn't take to the pole.