[SeanK]

Hi everyone

After a lot of calculations and working out I have come to the conclusion that I have to go VAT or I will not be able get bigger and ultimately earn more money. I have worked out if I go on the flat rate scheme and give every client a small raise, (not 11% as I already have really well priced work and feel this would make some clients leave.) I will be approx £5k a year worse off not including any larger purchases over 2k which I understand you can claim the VAT back.

Is there any advice any of you can give that have been there that would help with any potential pitfalls or tips that could help me.

I would really appreciate your comments

Hi Will

I'm in the same boat as you right now. It's been a tricky one because its been on my mind a lot as to which way to go.

Like yourself the majority of my work is priced quite high so its difficult to put the prices up. Also it would have to go up more than 11%. A £30 job plus 11% is £33.30 But then when you take the flat rate VAT off at 11% the £30 job becomes £29.64 - not as big a loss granted, but its still putting the price up and making less! And bare in mind that after one year the flat rate goes up to 12%. So any price increases I make will be minimum 15%.

I spent a lot of time chatting to my accountant about it all. One thing I looked at was to 'split' my business. Domestic exterior cleaning and a company for specialist cleaning - pressure cleaning and gutter cleaning. But then when you look at it all in detail there's so much going against you that its not worth the agg. Plus for us the way its going the domestic side of things will hit the threshold this year anyway.

I have actually gone over the threshold by quite a lot now, which is a good thing. A few months ago I started putting plans together to grow the business quite quickly, so from March it shouldn't be such a worry. Also we do a bit of commercial which you can charge 20% VAT so you can make up a bit from there.

At first I was quite worried about it, trying to get round it etc. But then I looked at it from a different view. If I've got a business turning over more than £100k with just one van and no direct employees thats something to be proud of. So I just need to keep on doing what I'm doing. Also I look at the VAT side now as just tax that needs to be paid. I save 20% a month of turnover (money actually come into the bank, not what aworka says we have done) so never have to worry about finding the money. So all VAT will be paid as will corporation tax.

If you don't want to stand still and keep making sure you're 'just under' the threshold I think the best strategy is to go and get more work in, as much as you can.

Thanks
Tom

Tom how many 'non direct' employees do you have? Are he/she/they self-employed?
Your obviously doing very well for yourself especially with just one van on the road. Just curious on what terms you employ your staff. Iv considered employing someone a few times but in the end always decide against it.
I can decide whether to stick or twist....

Chris the first thing you need to learn is how to smell the bull poop on here, as for employing there is no easy way you just go
for it if you have the work or cash flow to keep you going until you have enough work.
Yes you can sub work out to other self employed window cleaners but that would mean pricing the work as to cover the cost
of the hired window cleaner and have enough left to make it worth while for yourself.
In other words you would just be renting work out to other cleaners and I don't need to point out how that one could go.

You haven't got a clue SeanK. Or perhaps that should be YawnK.

Sorry mate didn't mean to upset you, especially when you took the trouble to come on here and tell everybody how proud
you are of yourself. 

[SeanK]

I'm satisfied Tom is legit. He seems a very intelligent and honest guy, and knowing the area he works in  I can imagine he gets paid well. Alot of mansions in his neck of the woods....

There's a lot of mansions in my neck of the woods also but they are not inhabited by fools who don't know the value of money.
Yes you can get a bit more from them as they are prepared to pay extra for the trust factor but like the rest of us they don't
like somebody taking them for a fool.
Work out how many properties you would need to clean working on your own with just the occasional helper to take in £100k
a year even if they are all highly priced and you will see where these type of posts fall apart.

[Tom-01]

Hi everyone

After a lot of calculations and working out I have come to the conclusion that I have to go VAT or I will not be able get bigger and ultimately earn more money. I have worked out if I go on the flat rate scheme and give every client a small raise, (not 11% as I already have really well priced work and feel this would make some clients leave.) I will be approx £5k a year worse off not including any larger purchases over 2k which I understand you can claim the VAT back.

Is there any advice any of you can give that have been there that would help with any potential pitfalls or tips that could help me.

I would really appreciate your comments

Hi Will

I'm in the same boat as you right now. It's been a tricky one because its been on my mind a lot as to which way to go.

Like yourself the majority of my work is priced quite high so its difficult to put the prices up. Also it would have to go up more than 11%. A £30 job plus 11% is £33.30 But then when you take the flat rate VAT off at 11% the £30 job becomes £29.64 - not as big a loss granted, but its still putting the price up and making less! And bare in mind that after one year the flat rate goes up to 12%. So any price increases I make will be minimum 15%.

I spent a lot of time chatting to my accountant about it all. One thing I looked at was to 'split' my business. Domestic exterior cleaning and a company for specialist cleaning - pressure cleaning and gutter cleaning. But then when you look at it all in detail there's so much going against you that its not worth the agg. Plus for us the way its going the domestic side of things will hit the threshold this year anyway.

I have actually gone over the threshold by quite a lot now, which is a good thing. A few months ago I started putting plans together to grow the business quite quickly, so from March it shouldn't be such a worry. Also we do a bit of commercial which you can charge 20% VAT so you can make up a bit from there.

At first I was quite worried about it, trying to get round it etc. But then I looked at it from a different view. If I've got a business turning over more than £100k with just one van and no direct employees thats something to be proud of. So I just need to keep on doing what I'm doing. Also I look at the VAT side now as just tax that needs to be paid. I save 20% a month of turnover (money actually come into the bank, not what aworka says we have done) so never have to worry about finding the money. So all VAT will be paid as will corporation tax.

If you don't want to stand still and keep making sure you're 'just under' the threshold I think the best strategy is to go and get more work in, as much as you can.

Thanks
Tom

Tom how many 'non direct' employees do you have? Are he/she/they self-employed?
Your obviously doing very well for yourself especially with just one van on the road. Just curious on what terms you employ your staff. Iv considered employing someone a few times but in the end always decide against it.
I can decide whether to stick or twist....

Chris the first thing you need to learn is how to smell the bull poop on here, as for employing there is no easy way you just go
for it if you have the work or cash flow to keep you going until you have enough work.
Yes you can sub work out to other self employed window cleaners but that would mean pricing the work as to cover the cost
of the hired window cleaner and have enough left to make it worth while for yourself.
In other words you would just be renting work out to other cleaners and I don't need to point out how that one could go.

You haven't got a clue SeanK. Or perhaps that should be YawnK.

Sorry mate didn't mean to upset you, especially when you took the trouble to come on here and tell everybody how proud
you are of yourself. 

Its ok I'm not upset, but I appreciate the apology.

I said I was proud of myself because I find it easier to look at costs going up and challenges to overcome as a sign of business going well, rather than being worried about the VAT threshold etc. So I was trying to say to the OP to think of it that way and keep doing what you're doing, because he should be proud of what he's achieved.

Anyway I don't want this post to turn into a slanging match as most of the others do - I was trying to help as I thought I was in a position to do so. If you've seen it differently then I'm not worried about what some ignorant/moronic person thinks.

I used to like the likes of Pryors posting on here because at least they had some balls to say what they have done, which inspired me rather than make me jealous and say they're speaking poop.

Anyway britishwill apologies for this thread going 'SeanK shaped'.

[SeanK]

You sound upset to me mate maybe if you where bringing in £200k a year an ignorant moron like me wouldn't
be able to get to you.

[8weekly]

I'm satisfied Tom is legit. He seems a very intelligent and honest guy, and knowing the area he works in  I can imagine he gets paid well. Alot of mansions in his neck of the woods....

There's a lot of mansions in my neck of the woods also but they are not inhabited by fools who don't know the value of money.
Yes you can get a bit more from them as they are prepared to pay extra for the trust factor but like the rest of us they don't
like somebody taking them for a fool.
Work out how many properties you would need to clean working on your own with just the occasional helper to take in £100k
a year even if they are all highly priced and you will see where these type of posts fall apart.

You'd need about 700 customers on an 8 weekly frequency at an average of about £23. Easily done in the south east.

[Tom-01]

You sound upset to me mate maybe if you where bringing in £200k a year an ignorant moron like me wouldn't
be able to get to you.

SeanK, seriously I'm not upset, and I'm not your mate. Frustrated maybe, because I was actually trying to help someone. You said I was talking bull poop. I asked what bit was bull poop? You didn't answer that, because you can't, because I didn't tell any untruths whatsoever. If you're opinion of me saying I was proud of what I have achieved so far was of me boasting then I'm just trying to tell you that isn't the case. I read the OP's post a number of times before I replied and wrote what I thought could be of some help. Chris Turner actually saw what I wrote as honest and helpful, which was my aim.

[NWH]

I'm satisfied Tom is legit. He seems a very intelligent and honest guy, and knowing the area he works in  I can imagine he gets paid well. Alot of mansions in his neck of the woods....

There's a lot of mansions in my neck of the woods also but they are not inhabited by fools who don't know the value of money.
Yes you can get a bit more from them as they are prepared to pay extra for the trust factor but like the rest of us they don't
like somebody taking them for a fool.
Work out how many properties you would need to clean working on your own with just the occasional helper to take in £100k
a year even if they are all highly priced and you will see where these type of posts fall apart.

You'd need about 700 customers on an 8 weekly frequency at an average of about £23. Easily done in the south east.

The above comment is said by someone who knows what can be earned,that is a good average right across the board with a mixture of very good work although £23 is the average and it may seem low its a good average.

[Tom-01]

I'm satisfied Tom is legit. He seems a very intelligent and honest guy, and knowing the area he works in  I can imagine he gets paid well. Alot of mansions in his neck of the woods....

There's a lot of mansions in my neck of the woods also but they are not inhabited by fools who don't know the value of money.
Yes you can get a bit more from them as they are prepared to pay extra for the trust factor but like the rest of us they don't
like somebody taking them for a fool.
Work out how many properties you would need to clean working on your own with just the occasional helper to take in £100k
a year even if they are all highly priced and you will see where these type of posts fall apart.

You'd need about 700 customers on an 8 weekly frequency at an average of about £23. Easily done in the south east.

Or come down to Berkshire and sit with me and my accountant and I'll happily go through my accounts with you.

Who said I have just an occasional helper? According to Aworka my business currently has 321 regular  window cleaning customers. Not a lot at all. But with other services we offer its a lot. And some of the customers we have pay a lot.

[8weekly]

I'm satisfied Tom is legit. He seems a very intelligent and honest guy, and knowing the area he works in  I can imagine he gets paid well. Alot of mansions in his neck of the woods....

There's a lot of mansions in my neck of the woods also but they are not inhabited by fools who don't know the value of money.
Yes you can get a bit more from them as they are prepared to pay extra for the trust factor but like the rest of us they don't
like somebody taking them for a fool.
Work out how many properties you would need to clean working on your own with just the occasional helper to take in £100k
a year even if they are all highly priced and you will see where these type of posts fall apart.

You'd need about 700 customers on an 8 weekly frequency at an average of about £23. Easily done in the south east.

Or come down to Berkshire and sit with me and my accountant and I'll happily go through my accounts with you.

Who said I have just an occasional helper? According to Aworka my business currently has 321 regular  window cleaning customers. Not a lot at all. But with other services we offer its a lot. And some of the customers we have pay a lot.

I have a different approach. I go all out for regular 8 weekly customers. I have also just taken on a full time employee rather than going for a part time helper. At the moment we are taking on add ons whilst we get to the number of regular customers we need to get a second van out.

Do I remember correctly that you are in Ascot Tom? I'm in Newbury.

[Tom-01]

When I started my aim was to canvass for just window cleaning WFP and gutter cleaning off of a ladder if I could do them. Then a guy I know bought loads if equipment so I started pricing pressure washing and gutter vacuuming, and getting him to do it because he couldn't/wouldn't get any work. Just put the money back in and got all my own equipment. I have a good setup with the guy who works for me and he's happy with his money. Pretty much everyday is full of regular windows now so everything else is bonus and brilliant for cash flow. We do a fair bit for a few property management companies as well. Got a big marketing push which will be constant starting in March. Yep in Ascot 8weekly although go as far as Wimbledon and Beaconsfield. South East is a good area. Also there's so many houses and loads more being built.

[chris turner]

There's thousands of houses going up in these parts at the moment, all good news for us shiners.
In 1 site in fleet alone there's 1000 houses being built, just 10 mins from me. I have a days work there, hoping to get more as the houses keep going up.
Tom do have any work in Bracknell? There's a huge site there in its final stages, rich for picking,  just before the m4.

[Tom-01]

There's thousands of houses going up in these parts at the moment, all good news for us shiners.
In 1 site in fleet alone there's 1000 houses being built, just 10 mins from me. I have a days work there, hoping to get more as the houses keep going up.
Tom do have any work in Bracknell? There's a huge site there in its final stages, rich for picking,  just before the m4.

Jennetts Park? Funnily enough just booked a leaflet drop which includes it, 850 going out us I will canvass. Hitting Ascot and surrounding areas constantly from now on. More local the better.

[chris turner]

Jennetts park that's the one. A guy called reggie does a huge amount of houses on that estate, but it's a big estate, plenty more to go round. Redrow are still finishing up there, another 70 or so houses to go up in the next phase.
Also just around the corner from Jennetts in Wokingham there's 2 sites in development
Iv been working on these sites the last couple of years, I could even tell you which plots will be ready for moving in within the next few weeks
The most luck you"ll have on jennetts is down falcon way and guillemot street, there the newest parts of the development, still on going with people moving in.

[britishwill]

We really need to just help each other even if you feel it is bull.
I know for a fact that Tom is lucky enough to charge a premium for the house prices in Ascot. I moved from there 1.5 years ago.
If we just answer the question that has been asked we can all get answers to what we need help in. Those people that question turnover or profit are just wasting their time as we are all hear to help others  surely. Tom spent his time giving great feedback and other wasted their time questioning him.
All I say is help the person in need if you can if not stay quiet unless you think they are breaking the law or will hurt themselves or others.
We are all here to help each other and my post has created very few helpful ideas but a large amount of useless banter not helpful or inspiring to newbies or others in our position

[Tom-01]

Jennetts park that's the one. A guy called reggie does a huge amount of houses on that estate, but it's a big estate, plenty more to go round. Redrow are still finishing up there, another 70 or so houses to go up in the next phase.
Also just around the corner from Jennetts in Wokingham there's 2 sites in development
Iv been working on these sites the last couple of years, I could even tell you which plots will be ready for moving in within the next few weeks
The most luck you"ll have on jennetts is down falcon way and guillemot street, there the newest parts of the development, still on going with people moving in.

Yep I know of Reggie - his family used to be our neighbours years ago and his mum works in the Ascot branch of Barclays.

Even if I got just 10 on that estate its worth it. Yep seen all the work in Wokingham too as have a bit round there, any info on new builds would be welcome mate

Thanks
Tom

[supernova77]

SeanK

I know Tom personally...

He might be a bit of a mincer, but he's not lying.

Andy 

[chris turner]

Redhatch drive, lower early, reading. Big site going up, first 18 houses have only just moved in, all 4,5 bed houses 
Iv just given up all but one of the sites I worked on to concentrate on my residential work. The site iv kept is in Woking, where the round iv just bought is, so a good opportunity for me to expand it. Cleaning the 2 showhomes there on Friday, first few clients should be moving in a couple of weeks so il be the first window cleaner they see!
I had loads of enquiries down falcon way part of jennetts park, I turned them down though. I always hate the drive from aldershot to bracknell, not something I want to be doing often.

I'd rather keep my residential a bit more local, Woking being the exception only because I now have a large amount over there.

[matt bowler]

When I started my aim was to canvass for just window cleaning WFP and gutter cleaning off of a ladder if I could do them. Then a guy I know bought loads if equipment so I started pricing pressure washing and gutter vacuuming, and getting him to do it because he couldn't/wouldn't get any work. Just put the money back in and got all my own equipment. I have a good setup with the guy who works for me and he's happy with his money. Pretty much everyday is full of regular windows now so everything else is bonus and brilliant for cash flow. We do a fair bit for a few property management companies as well. Got a big marketing push which will be constant starting in March. Yep in Ascot 8weekly although go as far as Wimbledon and Beaconsfield. South East is a good area. Also there's so many houses and loads more being built.

Tom you have done really well there, I am based in Wimbledon and could do with some advice if you don't mind, but don't know how to message privately on here. Thanks

[ChumBucket]

I'm satisfied Tom is legit. He seems a very intelligent and honest guy, and knowing the area he works in  I can imagine he gets paid well. Alot of mansions in his neck of the woods....

There's a lot of mansions in my neck of the woods also but they are not inhabited by fools who don't know the value of money.
Yes you can get a bit more from them as they are prepared to pay extra for the trust factor but like the rest of us they don't
like somebody taking them for a fool.
Work out how many properties you would need to clean working on your own with just the occasional helper to take in £100k
a year even if they are all highly priced and you will see where these type of posts fall apart.

You'd need about 700 customers on an 8 weekly frequency at an average of about £23. Easily done in the south east.

The above comment is said by someone who knows what can be earned,that is a good average right across the board with a mixture of very good work although £23 is the average and it may seem low its a good average.

Good old CIU, you never fail Nige!!

[Tom-01]

When I started my aim was to canvass for just window cleaning WFP and gutter cleaning off of a ladder if I could do them. Then a guy I know bought loads if equipment so I started pricing pressure washing and gutter vacuuming, and getting him to do it because he couldn't/wouldn't get any work. Just put the money back in and got all my own equipment. I have a good setup with the guy who works for me and he's happy with his money. Pretty much everyday is full of regular windows now so everything else is bonus and brilliant for cash flow. We do a fair bit for a few property management companies as well. Got a big marketing push which will be constant starting in March. Yep in Ascot 8weekly although go as far as Wimbledon and Beaconsfield. South East is a good area. Also there's so many houses and loads more being built.

Tom you have done really well there, I am based in Wimbledon and could do with some advice if you don't mind, but don't know how to message privately on here. Thanks

Hi Matt

My email should be on my profile page, feel free to email me.

Tom