[Bungle]

I found that too - hardly any foam on an applicator yet with a much weaker solution it froths like mad in the tank. I've started measuring it out now at 1000 to 1.

Keep us posted Dave. I've got 5 litres of Unger Liquid that's been sat in my garage for donkeys. If I'm snowed off tomorrow, I'm going to experiment with my trolley set up.

SNOWED OFF !!!! where do you live?

Somewhere where there's snow falling 

[jarvy]

Just ordered some gg4. Never used it before for trad but interested to see how it works out with pure using the amounts you have tried. Cheap enough to see if it works. By the photos you have put up it seems to work ok.

[DeLuce]

I've been using about 1ml of GG4 per 100l of pure

I have no idea if Unger liquid is any good - I found it crap for cleaning windows.

Interesting experiments with the GG4. Sounds promising.
I found that Unger liquid was poor for trad cleaning too, I certainly wouldn't put that in my tank, to much like washing up liquid 

[capn sparkle]

I've been using about 1ml of GG4 per 100l of pure

I have no idea if Unger liquid is any good - I found it crap for cleaning windows.

Dave do you ever re fill printer ink cartridges?? My cheapo Tesco re fill kits come with a 10ml syringe in half mil graduations.

Email me your address and I'll post ya a spare one.

Before the rest of you say it!! Yes I am a cheapskate with printer ink..    Bloody expensive stuff for what you get.

[Dave Willis]

Ha ha, no but I have pinched the Nurofen syringe from my kids medicine cabinet. 

[Clever Forum Name]

I've been using about 1ml of GG4 per 100l of pure

I have no idea if Unger liquid is any good - I found it crap for cleaning windows.

Dave do you ever re fill printer ink cartridges?? My cheapo Tesco re fill kits come with a 10ml syringe in half mil graduations.

Email me your address and I'll post ya a spare one.

Before the rest of you say it!! Yes I am a cheapskate with printer ink..    Bloody expensive stuff for what you get.

Printer ink is the most expensive fluid in the world. Even compared to rate champagne

Comparing ML Vs ML

2nd is Vision

[SeanK]

Dave have you considered trying Glass Gleam Solar from the same company as its designed for WFP
cleaning.
I'm waiting on my new Gardiner backpack so might give this one a try, Im still interested in the drip stopping
effects on problem frames.
Have a bottle of GG4 in the garage so will give it a go first.

[Dave Willis]

No, to be honest I'm only playing with it because I have a four litre bottle at home anyway.
In my opinion It probably makes little difference what is used at such low dosages just as long as it breaks the surface tension down.
I've not tried Vision and probably never will so can't critisise their product really. If you look at their claims then Gg4 seems very similar - adds a bit of shine maybe, helps a little with cutting through the dirt etc. It just makes the water a bit wetter.
I think the Vision boys claims are pretty fair to be honest, it's a shame they have attracted a ridiculous fan club from Peters forum who seem intent on boosting sales for them. Seems to be the Gardiners hating Tekbook loving Chinese pole worshipping bunch that stick together.

My advice would be ignore the stupid fairy stories of what Vision does and listen to one of the more sensible members of the trio who sell it - he's not claiming miracles but must be rolling about laughing when some customers post the drivel they do  

I've had a laugh with the Vision boys and taken the pee out of them but if they can pass their product on at £60 a litre for something a customer will never notice then who are the daft ones? Just sit back and let it go.

[SeanK]

Unfortunately Dave its not me or you that's going to get stung with this product, its guys who are starting out
and could more than likely do without this wasted expense.
Five or six years ago I would have been one of the guys being taken in by this product and would more than likely
have fallen for the placebo effect.
I just didn't want to see guys taken in by this lot and that was me only reason for posting on this subject, but
your right as far as I'm concerned I have more than done my bit and have taken the flack for it so its time to let
it go.

[Jonny 87]

Unfortunately Dave its not me or you that's going to get stung with this product, its guys who are starting out
and could more than likely do without this wasted expense.
Five or six years ago I would have been one of the guys being taken in by this product and would more than likely
have fallen for the placebo effect.
I just didn't want to see guys taken in by this lot and that was me only reason for posting on this subject, but
your right as far as I'm concerned I have more than done my bit and have taken the flack for it so its time to let
it go.

Sean..........

Between everyone involved in vision (uk and overseas) we have about 100 years plus of window cleaning experience. If you seriously think this is of no benefit and purely placebo.........without actually trying any for yourself.......ok.

The comment about "added expense" is ridiculous. Even at the recommended ratio it should only cost a few £ a week to use constantly, and we offer a FULL REFUND if your not happy with the product!

It is time you let it go Sean, as it is becoming tiresome for many who like me are trying to work out how you can blindly make claims that this does not have any benefit when you don't even wish to try it for yourself.

[SeanK]

Wow 100 years and you need to add an additive to achieve the same results that I can get using pure alone,
just goes to prove that time counts for nothing.
But to bury the hatchet here's a free idea for something to sell next to Vision customers just don't give the secrete away.
I'm sure they will be gullible enough to fall for it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iofJN1dZZ4I

[Lee GLS]

I stuck some GG4 in my tank today and as far is I can tell it seems to do exactly what vision does. Brush glides better, bubbles on the windows when cleaning (although the bubbles with GG4 disappear quicker than vision which is much better when rinsing) and the glass is left with extra shine. Wether it aids cleaning is debatable, not really going to be able to tell until the summer.

[Bungle]

I stuck some GG4 in my tank today and as far is I can tell it seems to do exactly what vision does. Brush glides better, bubbles on the windows when cleaning (although the bubbles with GG4 disappear quicker than vision which is much better when rinsing) and the glass is left with extra shine. Wether it aids cleaning is debatable, not really going to be able to tell until the summer.

Very interesting. I'm going to buy some gg4.

[Jonny 87]

I stuck some GG4 in my tank today and as far is I can tell it seems to do exactly what vision does. Brush glides better, bubbles on the windows when cleaning (although the bubbles with GG4 disappear quicker than vision which is much better when rinsing) and the glass is left with extra shine. Wether it aids cleaning is debatable, not really going to be able to tell until the summer.

Lee have you tried vision? A side by side comparison should show you why vision is better (in our opinion) than just something off the shelf like gg4. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.

[Lee GLS]

I stuck some GG4 in my tank today and as far is I can tell it seems to do exactly what vision does. Brush glides better, bubbles on the windows when cleaning (although the bubbles with GG4 disappear quicker than vision which is much better when rinsing) and the glass is left with extra shine. Wether it aids cleaning is debatable, not really going to be able to tell until the summer.

Lee have you tried vision? A side by side comparison should show you why vision is better (in our opinion) than just something off the shelf like gg4. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Yes I have both.

[Dave Willis]

I've upped my dosage just a little today to 6ml per 300l just to see what happens tomorrow.
I find the bubbles fairly race down the glass. Seem to be using a tad more water too as it seems to flow through the system faster than before. Might back it down a bit.

[Jonny 87]

I stuck some GG4 in my tank today and as far is I can tell it seems to do exactly what vision does. Brush glides better, bubbles on the windows when cleaning (although the bubbles with GG4 disappear quicker than vision which is much better when rinsing) and the glass is left with extra shine. Wether it aids cleaning is debatable, not really going to be able to tell until the summer.

Lee have you tried vision? A side by side comparison should show you why vision is better (in our opinion) than just something off the shelf like gg4. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Yes I have both.

What you may have is a mix of vision (what was left in your tank) and gg4. After a few weeks of just using gg4 the difference should be quite noticeable between gg4 and vision. Keep us posted.

[Dave Willis]

What is the difference then? As you obviously don't know what's in GG4?

Your product is an off the shelf product now, exactly the same as GG4 is. I can go and buy Vision off the shelf from Jigsaw same as I can buy GG4 off the shelf.

[Window Lickers]

A side by side comparison should show you why vision is better (in our opinion) than just something off the shelf like gg4.

Something off the shelf? You make it sound inadequate or inferior.

[Jonny 87]

A side by side comparison should show you why vision is better (in our opinion) than just something off the shelf like gg4.

Something off the shelf? You make it sound inadequate or inferior.

Sorry I didn't mean it in that way. I like gg4 and in no way could even attempt to belittle it. It works very well as a trad soap, and it works to a degree as a WFP additive.

One of our testers in America (tony Evans) used gg4 as a WFP additive for years. Then he moved onto ecover as it did the same but was cheaper, now after a year or so on using vision he wouldn't entertain going back to using ecover or gg4.

I Just meant that gg4 wasn't designed as a WFP additive wheras vision was.