[windows_chepstow]

Wor Lass, on Easter Monday (today) has just forced me to clean our own windows.

I wasn't too happy since I've just been 'marched' up Sugar Loaf Mountain; shopped to death in Abergavenny and walked-to-death round Culean (sounds like).

So I just grabbed the backpack and 'ran round' our house.

All I did was wash once and rinse once; extremely quickly.

I only live in a shoe-box, but blimey, it must've taken me less than five minutes to clean four windows at the front, and four at the back.  I didn't really care how they came out - I didn't even lower the pole for the ground floor - and did what I would've considered a 'shoddy job'.

But the windows are gleaming; hydrophobic glass too (beading)! 

I've just carried out a close inspection and they're all perfect.

Tomorrow, I'll be doing the same to my customers!

Why didn't you lot tell me I was overdoing it?

[steve k]

started doing a similar thing a few weeks ago and have found that they are coming up great...it`s a bit alarming how quick it can be...when the customers are in, I am actually hanging about a bit to make the cost seem a bit more acceptable!!

[stuart webster]

How many times have they been cleaned?
When was the last time?

I'm on first cleans!

[windows_chepstow]

Steve, I find it hard to believe how clean they look.  As I'm typing I've just re-checked the back door window and kitchen windows.

They're magnificently clean!!!!

The thing I find hard to believe is how quick it was to clean them; one quick wash and one quick rinse; I was sure they wouldn't be 'pefect'.

But they are.

To The Bear:

They were last cleaned around a month ago; but done trad by Wor Lass (ground-floor only); but prior to that WFP; a good few times.

First cleans are a pain.  Take your time.

[WavieDavie]

Tosh - get onto Peter Fogwill's site and check his video clip.

When it was first on, he got a few remarks on some forums about the speed he was going at - some folk thought he couldn't have rinsed - but they were regularly wfp'd windows and came up a treat.

[P @ F]

I did that a while ago Tosh , scared me how quick it could be done with such good results , the thing is i still have gone back to taking my time , you have just reminded me to go like hell again , cheers !

 Rich   P @ F

[steve k]

I bought my system off a man in Stanstead...he gave me a demo and he just brushed over once and then ran the brush down the window diagonally a couple of inches off the glass to rinse...30 seconds at most! His windows were gleaming...
When I started, I was so particular about washing every inch of glass and especially rinsing from corner to corner...still much quicker than trad...but now, I am trusting the 000TDS and going for it!!

[poles apart]

I've often wondered when 'rinse, rinse, rinse' is used in this forum how long people are spending on cleaning when there is no need. I'm all for 'clean 'n' go!'
Rod

[simbo]

picking up on steve k's point, it has worried me that i can be too quick mostly because my prices were based on time as i am sure yours are. Now when customer is in i tend to do more windows trad unless dangerous, but at some point someone will moan i know they will. I have a comeback to any who complain though, " if there were two of us working it would be just as quick but i would have to pay them but now i have to pay for this water and equiptment", should do the trick i hope
simbo

[Spruce]

Hi,

I have found the same today with my own windows cleaned a couple of time with WFP.

I am still on with first cleans and still have spotting after 2 consecutive cleans and thorough rinses. I still believe that with the initial cleans its pain before the gain.

Rgds

[Paul Coleman]

started doing a similar thing a few weeks ago and have found that they are coming up great...it`s a bit alarming how quick it can be...when the customers are in, I am actually hanging about a bit to make the cost seem a bit more acceptable!!

The line I take is that now I've invested a lot of money in equipment and have the loans to repay, my charges aren't so closely related to the time taken.  Some customers seem to think that the money they give us is wages.  Window cleaning is a business. It has overheads like any other business.  WFP has more overheads than trad cleaning and there is more work to do away from the job as well.  The customers don't walk into a sweet shop, take one minute to buy a 50p Mars Bar, and then complain that the shopkeeper is earning 50p per minute.  This is because they know that (s)he has business rates to pay, the wholesale price of the Mars Bar, they need to take time to clean the shop sometimes etc etc.  So why the heck do they think it's any different with window cleaners who have resin to buy, membranes to change, vehicles to run, accountants to pay etc etc.  I'm sure some of them only try to keep me talking so that they feel that they get their moneysworth.  I'm gradually moving on from that sort of customer now.  It may sound lacking in compassion but that's the way it has to be in order to start doing well at this game.

[AuRavelling79]

I think the present weather is perfect for wfp - 10 to 15 degrees celsius. It doesn't evaporate in the heat or linger in the cold.

Last month during that cold snap when it was about 2 to 4 degrees in the afternoon I had one or two complaints the next time I called about water not drying and being spotty when it finally did (the next day).

Someone on here - can't remember who - sorry - said they run their blade along all the bottom glass of the bottom windows where the drips gather and that improves the appearance when it finally dries in very cold weather.

I wasn't too happy since I've just been 'marched' up Sugar Loaf Mountain;

I saw you Tosh! On Easter Monday I was walking along Craig Ffan Ddu over by Pen y fan and I looked across at the "Sugarloaf" and I swear I could see you half way up and Your Lass at the top.

[Ian_Giles]

The speed at which you can work (in the right conditions) is almost staggering, though I only really let rip when I am very sure that the windows and the conditions are such that I am 100% confident that the windows will come out perfect.

now most windows are UPVC nowadays, so in the main you can absolutely fly around your work and the job should be first.

The shiner is right too, I agree 100% with what he has said.

You have to allow for all business related overheads, and allow for time taken outside of normal working hours.
And in working out your true income you have to be aware of what your true earning hours are too...they will be far less than you realise.

Take out 4 weeks for holidays, take out the bank holidays, remove the time lost due to bad weather, driving between accounts, late starts, early finishes, tea breaks, toilet breaks, dinner breaks.
You have to allow for your business to at least make a small profit too.

You may not take 4 weeks holiday, but other people working a 9 till 5 job will have them, when you take a holiday it isn't paid for remember.

I think I have said somewhere else on the forum about this, but if you want to find out what you are truly earning, have 2 accounts (either two personal accounts and using one as a business one, or one proper busines account and a domestic one) and pay yourself a weekly income by standing order, make it the income you think you should be earning too.
Draw from it for all your normal living expenses, your beer money and so on.
If you only use the one vehicle for work and pleasure then pay roughly 75% of its costs from the business account, and only 25% of then from the one you pay your wage into.
Some of you will be surprised at just how small your income really is.

Many of us don't realise how much our businesses really cost to run.

And if we don't then how the hell is a customer going to!!

You have invested ££££ in your new system too, I tell any customer that looks at me a bit funny and wonders how I can work so fast and earn so much (in their opinion) that I have invested a lot of money and it had better be quicker or I'll want to know the reason why!!
I do my best to price up work as if I was still doing it trad, this is harder on georgian or leaded as it doesn't really make any difference whether or not they are normal windows or georgian, the time taken to clean them isn't much different.
So now some of the georgian work now becomes some of my best paying work, rather than the worst paying

It is vital that those who make the change to WFP do not start dropping their prices because they are so much quicker, if they do then they won't last!!


Ian

[windows_chepstow]

It is vital that those who make the change to WFP do not start dropping their prices because they are so much quicker, if they do then they won't last!!


Ian

This is happening around where we live, with the more prestigeous accounts.

I know for a fact that a large local hotel and golf club's window cleaners transferred to WFP AND dropped their price; quite substantially too.

In opinion, the job was under-priced to begin with; never mind getting cheaper.

Given the WFP boom, I would bet money that any large-commercial job - in a couple of years at least - will be getting their window cleaning done for cheaper.

I've priced my last three quotes for large(ish) commercial work as if I were using ladders and I didn't get any of them.

Okay, two of them were 'well priced', but the last was 'fairly' priced and I didn't get that either.

I shave, dress smart(ish) and act as professionally as possible; given the fact I'm a Geordie.  I normally take Wor Lass along too, to help out and create a good impression.

Quotes are sent on 100 gsm paper, smartly done with a method and risk assessment.

I can only think I've been beaten by 'price' everytime.

Prices are definately comming down.

 

[Ian_Giles]

Mmm, it really is a worry isn't it?
Though the golf club you metion Tosh is exactly the kind of job Iwouldn't touch with a barge pole.
These kind of jobs have never been good money for the amount of work involved.
This is a few days work for one person and will always come under a catogory that facility managers will endevour to get the cheapest price they can, this isn't some £60 or £70 job, it's many hundreds of pounds per clean, ergo price is VITAL.

WFP will enable the price to be forced down even further, it could shave a days worth of labour from the time taken to do the outside of the windows, maybe even more.
The stupid thing is that those that get these jobs won't be doing them with back pack and a couple of 25 litre containers in the back of the car, they will almost certainly have spent a great deal of money on their system, that money has to be clawed back, resin, filters and membranes all have to be maintained and replaced.
Batteries and pumps have to be replaced, poles wear out, and upgrades to your system are a regular occurence.
And what are they doing?
they are spending thousands, they have increased running costs and they are no better off at all because they have lopped the price down below which it wouldn't even be possible to do with Trad methods.
All that money spent and in the long run they are no better off.

Unfortunately as WFP becomes more and more the norm, those bigger jobs that are currently such good payers are probably going to witness a collapse in price.

And it'll be no good going back to ladders on them as you will probably have to triple the price to get even close to making this kind of work worth doing, and that ain't going to happen.
The average house on the average estate won't change much, you will probably still be better off with WFP as you can justify a slightly higher price because you clean the frames to a much higher standard than you normally will with trad work.
But people never learn, they only look at the fact they can do the work quicker, therefore they think they can do it cheaper.

They think the money the earn in the next hour is muliplied up and equates to what they are earning per year as a wage, and as I quickly mentioned in my previous reply, that just isn't the case...

Right, now I have this big office to do that I have slapped £40 on the price per clean...£120 a go now, and for the time being it is a good earner...so long as some idiot doesn't come along and offer to do it for a tenner an hour

Ian

[genesis_windows]

wfp is very much quicker than trad on the right accounts, making reference to a post months ago when it was disputed that 30 houses a day could not be done regularly with an average £8.00 per clean.
i think i was referred to as a "superman"  :

[brett walker]

I find that wfp is the same as traditional the more you do it the more expierenced you get

Im noticing im getting quicker at wfp upstairs, spending much less time on each window, do get a bit concerned sometimes as you are not face on as you are with trad, but had no complaints as yet.  Find with having a trolley though access can be awkward sometimes thankful ive got my backpack but wouldnt be without it, swings and roundabouts really

Brett