[Steve Mac]

 Just a quick question,

What's the purpose of point ladders, or A frames as i think they're called? Is it alot safer?

If so, i want one.

[mick40]

never tried one myself steve but a mate of mine who had a serious fall now swears by his A Frame.

[Jeff Brimble]

Under the new H&S rules they are 1 type of ladder you can use without having to have tie ins as the point gives the ladder tremendous stability when "fixed" into a bulding properly. Reassuringly Expensive  I like the wooden ones but alu are light. Will lst a lifetime. You usually have to buy one abot 18" longer than you first thought.

[Steve Mac]

 This all sounds well and good, but i don't actually understand what you do with the pointy bit! ( no jokes, please)

[mick40]

well if i was the mate,the point would have a horseshoe or a rabbits foot tied on.

[jinky230]

STEVE MAC

We use 8ft point ladders downstairs, they have a rubber point and fit in the corner of the window frame

we got then because if the ladder slips you do not srcatch the glass
which happened regular with small standard aluminium ladders

for upstair no point unless you are doing fanlights above doors of pubs etc

and the ladder has to go into a corner

downstairs first class investment would not use anything else


jinky hope this helps

[Steve Mac]

 Cheers Jinky, thanks for shedding some light on that 4 me.  Is access to the window not sometimes a bit restricted compared to a stepladder??

[steve k]

NEVER use stepladders...apparently one of the most common pieces of equipment involved in falls...I use a 6ft pointer and it is excellent..you can put it on frames and into corners and safely access vast areas of glass.

[jinky230]

the bigger A frame ladders were used in commercial with high door entrances etc but now in commercial due to health and safety everything is done with poles etc.

The small A frame ladders are used in domestic when 2 people are working together, 8ft being an inbetween size for everything and adaptable for 6ft heights without buying too many ladders.The A frame is placed in the corner of the frame leaving the window accessable for cleaning, their is no chance of ladder slipping over the glass as the ladder gets jammed with the weight of standing on it.

when working yourself on domestic you just use 1 big ladder and adapt when needed/I carry a small 2 ft extention pole on a holster and when I come to windows i use the pole to reach areas I can not reach, I pole  to about half way then finish of with normal sweeguee

equipment carried

unger belt with harness, you need to take this and get it aitered to fit correctly

on the belt is 2 pockets for scrims 1bucket on belt 16 inch sweegee and 14 inch winwash in bucket on a belt , 2 holsters 1 for 2ft pole 1 for 22 inch sweegee for conservatories if needed.sounds a lot but it is quite light

window cleaning is all about keeping the flow going to get the numbers

like driving coordination without thinking -- it increases reactions, relating to increasing earnings. with step ladders you start - stop to change ladders
also carrying an additional set of ladders= time of clean drops dratically

its the same with wfp thinking the job out before you approach speeds time safety and earnings

hope this helps
jinky

[jinky230]

if you go for one get the rubber mold on the top we use a compamy in manchester
called  corwood you will get their number from nfmwc dont have it at the moment,

wooden outers, alu steps about £100 for 8ft = good investment once tried no going back
we have used them for about25 years would not use anything else

but only buy the 8ft tried the 6ft to small for some situations and the 18 ft , not needed now also just found them unadaptable

jinky

[Steve Mac]

 I've used a domestic stepladder from b & q for years now, but they can be a bit of a balancing act at times. Gonna try leaving it at home and just taking one ladder to work for a bit. If i can't get on with it on some jobs, then this 6ft A frame sounds like a good investment.
 I am quite concious of my step being designed for light domestic use only  , but my dad used them when i worked with him. Old habits...

[jinky230]

who we use vale royale tel 0160643351

blackpool ladder centre  01253304403

lansford access 01179515682

hope this helps

jinky

[jinky230]

go for the 8ft not the 6ft the 6ft limits you when some of the bottoms get high

jinky

[Steve Mac]

Thanks for the advice mate. Am i right in thinking you use a backpack for WFP? Thinking of getting one after reading some old threads. Can you recommend one? I've got alot of random small domestic stuff.

[jinky230]

yes have 2 backpacks and a trolley system built the trolley myself

do your traditional window cleaning and leave the dangerous or aukward windows like  windows on roofs with steepness windows also windows above decking if slippy and windows above unjetted mono or slabs that feel slippy

go back clean these windows with backpack, the backpack will last for about 20 windows  so over a day say 35 houses 20 unsafe 1 window per house

backpack will sort it out you have already reserve time from not doing these windows during the day so 20 mins at the end of the day sorts things out
and keeps you safe.Some people do all tops with wfp some people do all windows with wfp, but the amount of water you carry for this is unreal

imargine 25 litre to 25 kg per 3 houses x 12 to do 36 houses you are carrying

300 kg of water with you is equal to 3 grown men in your vehicle
now imargine 2 guys working with you and carrying their water as well

you need a bloody big vehicle I personnally use a trailer for carrying the water

the weight in the vehicle would do it in

so if a few working they do the easy stuff and the hard stuff with the wfp results in a few containers each

I believe this is the way for domestic - commercial and industrial differnt then you hook up a trailer with large tank dont believe in carrying 1000 litres in the back of the van, what if the van breaks down are you off the road, with the trailer you hook upto another vehicle- so when fitting a tank make sure the backup vehicle can tow it as well

hope this helps jinky

[jinky230]

backpack cleantech

[Steve Mac]

Thanks. Since finding this forum, i've done so many windows and thought : " That would be so much easier with WFP....I know it was a completely unrelated topic, but had to ask. 

[jeff1]

I used to use steps, but in the end i built my own A frame ladders there only 6' made from timber,
they are the best ladders, never fell of them, they have never twisted, and if the top is in the way you can pull it away from the window with one finger.

[rosskesava]

I've used A frames for a year both for 1st floor and ground floor.

I would never go back to using a standard ladders. A frames are so much more stable and quicker and you never need ladder mats.

As for step ladders, I personally think they are down right lethal for window cleaning.

[chris@c.m.s]

What about bay windows? I have several that the top openers need to be cleaned at full stretch in those circurmstances is it safe to place the point onto the frame of Ist floor windows? sorry steve for hijacking your thread but may as well bring the questions into one.