[WCS Limited]

Now i had a safefill with a fogwash many moons ago and now in the new van im just running cold, ive been debating whether to buy a used diesel system when one comes up for sale or to just build my own from scratch (im more than up to the challenge of building an almost identical pure freedom one for the fraction of the new cost)

anyways ive also been tempted by going the LPG route again until i saw this on Facebook this morning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tInsvzrE5SA

i would not like this to happen anywhere near me!!!

[Plankton]

When driving an HGV 10 years ago round about now, I witnessed another HGV tanker flatten a broken down black hack (taxi) on the M77. The driver was still in it at the time and when I ran back there he had just stepped out from what was left. His face was badly cut up but he was lucky to be alive just like the chap in the video a very near death moment.

[dazmond]

so your full of fear cos of a video from 2 years ago of 2 guys in a middle eastern country nearly blowing themselves up with a dodgy tank/cylinder.stick with cold mate.............oh and be careful out there.keep your eye out for vans with lpg.if you see one RUN FOR THE HILLS.by the way cold water cleans far better than hot did you know cold actually keeps your hands warmer on cold days?

I use a 13kg gas bottle with an L5.costs me around £50 a month to use hot every day throughout winter(2 bottles a month).i know its cheaper in the long run to fit a gas safe cylinder but i only use hot in winter.

[robert mitchell]

I'm thinking of building a diesel system too , i reckon you do it properly for less than a grand.

[WCS Limited]

Haha no I do agree it's cheaper, having to cut hole in the roof to run a thermostatic controller at night also puts me off.

Remember Dazmond I had a gas one fitted by myself years ago when they first started coming out. I think it's more the point of the older I get the more I think about my own mortality lol rather than to save some money...

[WCS Limited]

I'm thinking of building a diesel system too , i reckon you do it properly for less than a grand.

Is it spruce that's tried before and found out some problems??

However I've spoken to both PF and Spring controllers about essentially jail breaking the temperature control unit to reduce the 60dg plus setting on heater units but the costs would be far out weighed to bother doing. Think the easiest way would be to pretty much copy theirs but use a recon heater... I think £1k would be pushing it though if you wanted a guaranteed recon heater

[robert mitchell]

£399 on ebay for a 5kw refurbished with the full kit (fuel pump /wiring etc) all the ancillaries are brand new .

[robert mitchell]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eberspacher-Hydronic-D5WSC-12v-DIESEL-WATER-HEATER-FULL-KIT-WARRANTY-/251743726512?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item3a9d186bb0


6 months warranty

[robert mitchell]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-heater-Hydronic-D5WSC-D5W-SC-12V-diesel-full-kit-1-year-warranty-/261623409698?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item3ce9f86c22


1 years warranty ....... ideally i would prefer a 9kw version but i think this work for a one man system .

[WCS Limited]

That's what I mean to get a 9kw or even 7kw your looking way closer to around £1200 at best with all the ancillaries plus a cabinet and the PF controller to work the thermostat.

Don't forget you have to install an additional fuel tank as apparently new legislation prevents you from tapping into your existing tank

[robert mitchell]

they do get the 9kw ones in occasionally with the full kit and they are nowhere near 1200 .

i don't need a cabinet as my bespoke grippa system has room to bolt it on since i removed the filters from the van .

I'm pretty sure grippa still tap into the tank .....personally i think its easier just to fit a second tank .

where did you hear that legislation?

[WCS Limited]

That's from PF it does make sense with idea of the fuel leaking from a non manufacturer installed part

[robert mitchell]

I don't think it makes any sense , any competent mechanic can fit a full line leak free its not rocket science .

You could have exactly the same problem fitting  a separate tank , you still need a fuel line.

I can see it maybe voiding your warranty if its a new vehicle though .

[Spruce]

That's what I mean to get a 9kw or even 7kw your looking way closer to around £1200 at best with all the ancillaries plus a cabinet and the PF controller to work the thermostat.

Don't forget you have to install an additional fuel tank as apparently new legislation prevents you from tapping into your existing tank

I haven't been able to find anything about this new legislation tbh. Our van insurers didn't know anything about it either. The Webasto stand pipe is a pretty good piece of kit, and, if fitted to their instructions will be pretty fail safe.

There was an issue with Ducato based motorhomes which had diesel heaters fitted. Webasto suggest that the fuel pump is removed from the tank and there is a section on the flange of the unit that will nicely accept the stand pipe. It obviously means drilling the fuel pump flange. There was a batch of fuel pumps that failed and were replaced under warranty. However any that were tampered with (ie a hole drilled in it) had their warranty rejected. Those fuel pumps are jolly expensive.

The other issue fitting a stand pipe to some tanks is that some of the drilling swarf will get into the tank, despite the drill bit being coated with grease to catch it. The fitter would have to assume responsibility for this if this swarf was proven to cause other fuel related issues.
My feeling (unless they can direct us to the legislation) is that THEY (PF) don't want the responsibilty and have used it as an excuse not to do the job that way.

I would have thought they would ban fitting additional tanks rather than tapping into your existing fuel tank. If you have a second tank fitted into the van permanently, then you risk spilling fuel into the van with either putting the nozzle in or taking it out. What happens if you overfill your tank?

This is the latest info that I could find regarding the carrying and storage of extra fuel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/17548007

Many found a solution was a Marine tank. Easy to fill on the forecourt, easy to carry and transport, and easy to connect up to the boat. Its what I would use. There is a steel frame work that will secure a 20 litre jerry can (which is also used in the marine industry). It can be taken out at fuel staions and filled on the forecourt before returned full into its frame. All that would need is a longer hose from the tank to the pump.

[Spruce]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eberspacher-Hydronic-D5WSC-12v-DIESEL-WATER-HEATER-FULL-KIT-WARRANTY-/251743726512?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item3a9d186bb0


6 months warranty

It won't produce enough heat.  A 5kw diesel heater working at full 'bore' will raise the water from 9 degrees to 35 degrees at 1.5 LPM. If you increase the flow to 2LPM it won't get you much above 25 degrees from 9 degrees.
You can get a hotter output by slowing the water to 1.0 LPM, but it's too slow to rinse properly IMHO.

The trouble with diesel heaters is that they are very inefficient, so most of the heat generated goes to waste through the exhaust.

[Spruce]

I'm thinking of building a diesel system too , i reckon you do it properly for less than a grand.

Here's a photo my test bench system.



It has 3 heat exchangers. It was built to see how well it would cope as a 2 operator system. The third heat exchanger (first in line from the heater) was to tap off excess heat from the circuit via a digital thermostatic pump controller and return it back to the tank during periods when we weren't cleaning windows.

[PoleKing]

I've wondered for a while now if it was a legal requirement to display the sticker if you're carrying gas.
It isn't.
It's probably a good idea, but not a legal requirement.

http://www.bcga.co.uk/pages/download_document.cfm?document_name=L1.pdf

[WCS Limited]

It is funny it's a little like Chinese whispers it all started as a fAg packet idea to stop people buying gas lol

An exploding bottle does worry me...

Spruce... Looks like you've been plugging away at this for a while then, rather than setting your heater as a demand unit did you look into it heating the water as a hot water tank (like at home) and using a controller with temperature probes to tell the unit when to fire between certain peramitters?

[robert mitchell]

I'm thinking of building a diesel system too , i reckon you do it properly for less than a grand.

Here's a photo my test bench system.



It has 3 heat exchangers. It was built to see how well it would cope as a 2 operator system. The third heat exchanger (first in line from the heater) was to tap off excess heat from the circuit via a digital thermostatic pump controller and return it back to the tank during periods when we weren't cleaning windows.

I was looking at the 5kw for a one man system rather than 2 which is what i believe pure freedom used in there one man system .

Also why the extra heat exchanger , surely its simpler to have a thermal valve in between the exchanger and the hosereel outlet to cycle water back to tank from the same heat exchanger?

[Nathanael Jones]

Personally I'd go for an immersion heater if I was building another hot system. Diesel may be less explosive than gas, but you have worse issues with fumes, higher purchase costs, higher running costs and higher maintenance costs,...