[maxcampbell]

It's often said, especially by them wot use Cleantalk, that the Jaguar is the most powerful porty on the market - supposedly far above others. It uses 2 x 6.6" lamb motors.

Alltec, and perhaps others, produce triple vac machines.

There is the whole parallel / series issue.

Has anyone actually measured airflow / vacuum produced by different machines? How would you do it? Maybe graph out inches of lift against cfm?

I think we should be told!

[john martin]

It's often said, especially by them wot use Cleantalk, that the Jaguar is the most powerful porty on the market - supposedly far above others. It uses 2 x 6.6" lamb motors.

Alltec, and perhaps others, produce triple vac machines.

There is the whole parallel / series issue.

Has anyone actually measured airflow / vacuum produced by different machines? How would you do it? Maybe graph out inches of lift against cfm?

I think we should be told!

You can pretty much predict the performance of a machine using the motor manufactures test data .
That is the airflow when the port or hose is fully open  .... and the suction or lift when it is fully closed .

Like u said the series /parallel thing complicates the real performance ... Ashbys had a video showing the best test gantry iv ever seen  ,  they had a lift gauge and a cfm meter attached to the wand with the wand set into the carpet .
They deleted it after the whole airflex thing .... but even if the cfm meter was not accurate , it was equally inacurate accross both sets of motors tested .
Basically it showed their electro motors in series had more airflow in cleaning than parallel 6.6  .... but not much in it really .

Cleantalk  ....   there is no truth there .

[Lewis Newby]

John, what are the cfm and lift figures of the enforcer? vs say a jaguar 6.6? just out of interest

lewis

[fibresafe]

Enforcer's 230" water-lift and around 115 cfm

Jag's around 150" waterlift and 280 cfm

If you compare overall air watts (airflow x lift), the jag's about 25% more powerful but obviously needs the 2 power cords.

Having used both Electro and 6.6 set-ups, I'd say the main differences are that you can move the wand a lot quicker with the high airflow 6.6 set up, plus drying is a little faster and also better on longer hose runs.

I know one guy who's been running a different 6.6 machine on 1 heavy duty extension cord for over a year and says he's had no problems.

[Lewis Newby]

Thanks mate, I have a jag, and coming from a 1cord for vac/pump 2nd cord heater- I'm not sure this machine is all I hoped for. Cold water rinsing may be the problem. But I don't want to be messing about with 3 cords if I add a heater.

Have considered switching to an enforcer spec'd airflex pro with magma in the new year. Or upgrading my agitation to a tm4 to see if this makes up the difference
lew

[john martin]

Enforcer's 230" water-lift and around 115 cfm

Jag's around 150" waterlift and 280 cfm

If you compare overall air watts (airflow x lift), the jag's about 25% more powerful but obviously needs the 2 power cords.

Having used both Electro and 6.6 set-ups, I'd say the main differences are that you can move the wand a lot quicker with the high airflow 6.6 set up, plus drying is a little faster and also better on longer hose runs.

I know one guy who's been running a different 6.6 machine on 1 heavy duty extension cord for over a year and says he's had no problems.

Fibersafe ... 150" ?  have you tested that  , the 6.6 makes 139 from Ametecs specs and anyone whos tested them seems to have struggled to get near that .

Not being able to move the wand as quick to me suggests its pulling harder at the carpet , dirt and moisture ... cant be a bad thing ? 

Also can u say its 25% mor powerfull when that 25 percent is made up of open ended hose cfm , which drops like a brick when u stick it in the carpet .

[fibresafe]

Enforcer's 230" water-lift and around 115 cfm

Jag's around 150" waterlift and 280 cfm

If you compare overall air watts (airflow x lift), the jag's about 25% more powerful but obviously needs the 2 power cords.

Having used both Electro and 6.6 set-ups, I'd say the main differences are that you can move the wand a lot quicker with the high airflow 6.6 set up, plus drying is a little faster and also better on longer hose runs.

I know one guy who's been running a different 6.6 machine on 1 heavy duty extension cord for over a year and says he's had no problems.

Fibersafe ... 150" ?  have you tested that  , the 6.6 makes 139 from Ametecs specs and anyone whos tested them seems to have struggled to get near that .

Not being able to move the wand as quick to me suggests its pulling harder at the carpet , dirt and moisture ... cant be a bad thing ? 

Also can u say its 25% mor powerfull when that 25 percent is made up of open ended hose cfm , which drops like a brick when u stick it in the carpet .

Yes, measured at 150", may be a few inches out but not many.

I find I need to move the wand slower and make more dry passes with the in-series set-up.

25% is going by airwatts (which takes into account both airflow and lift) which is the most reliable way to compare overall vacuum power in my opinion.

[stuart_clark]

I prefer my SCORPY !   SCORPYS RULE ! Lol




Stuart

[Russ Chadd]

It's not all about performance... I would rather have a machine which was designed and built well and offers greater reliability.
That's why I chose an enforcer... Use it like a porty and you will love it, after all it's not a truckmount 😊

[Lewis Newby]

Russ, is your enforcer configured 1cord for pump/motor 2nd cord for heat? I have seen some of your videos on YouTube and it seems to work well for you. What kind of hose runs do you max out at ?

[Robin Ray]

I have an Airflex Pro Custom ( same set up as the Enforcer ) I have only used it at 50ft so far but it works very well and blows out steam when used with the Magma heater. The machine runs on one cord and the heater on another. I have no doubt it would work just as effectively at 100 ft of hose however like Russ I use my machine as a porty. As portables go it is very effective and cant really Imagine what is really possible to improve on the results I can achieve with it. I think if I had to add another cord it would just add to the hassle rather than any real discernible improvement in performance. ( With electric motors that is).

I will be upgrading to a truckmount at some point soon however its not because I'm not happy with the performance of my machine. I think i will benefit from faster set up time and clear up time.

[Lewis Newby]

Hi Robin, i think we spoke earlier in the year as i am Torbay based, and remember discussing the air-flex's performance and heat then.  my last machine was 1 cord for power and 1 for heat, but the heat was not adjustable. i thought i was upgrading but i feel like i haven't. Ebay maybe calling in the new year...

[Robin Ray]

What did you get Lewis?

[Lewis Newby]

Jag 6.6 in the end. It sure is powerful but I don't feel it cleans any better then the last machine. I'm going to invest in a tm4 and see how better agitation helps, if no better I will go back to cleaning with heat and a bit less vac power

[Robin Ray]

I think heat is essential. Just finished a really grubby carpet in a holiday let, the difference between the first few strokes using the cold water in the hose and when the heat comes through was quite noticeable.

Im not sure why solutions say heat is not needed  I try to use as many pieces of the cleaning pie as possible to maximise the speed and results. Not using it is like working with one hand tied behind your back just because you can, you can but its just harder to do.

[Lewis Newby]

That's hit the nail on the head Robin, I'm getting on well with thier products but don't I know it if I rinse with hand hot vs cold water. Unfortunately I was sold on the hype and brought a great machine which dosnt suit my needs. If I was top of the ladder as a cleaner and only cleaning clean carpets I'd be fine but I do my fair share of mingers or eot and I think I'm no better off then I was before. Not had any complaints just don't feel I'm getting the upgrade I've paid for

[Robin Ray]

Im sure the machine is fine. Cant you just buy an add on heater like the magma of the ashbys steammate or even just a bucket heater like this one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-FAST-Immersion-Boiling-Water-Heater-Bucket-Heater-220V-3000W-120-248-/261380651100?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item3cdb80385c

[Lewis Newby]

That looks like a good option, I have considered the magma , I'm hoping one pops up 2nd hand but I may get a new one in the new year if not. I didn't want 3 cords really but if it gets me the results I'm after then so be it. Thanks for your input Robin, ATB

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Irrelevant if you think heat is better or not but heat cleans faster and you need less dry strokes, my heat exchanger went once and I diverted to cold water only the speed of extraction was slower and I needed to work harder to get the same drying.

Shaun

[john martin]

That looks like a good option, I have considered the magma , I'm hoping one pops up 2nd hand but I may get a new one in the new year if not. I didn't want 3 cords really but if it gets me the results I'm after then so be it. Thanks for your input Robin, ATB

do get the Magma if u want but this one is all u need  ,  il bet they are the same internally anyway  , the cfr has no heat adjustment but really u dont need it , most of the time u are trying to get it as hot as possible .
I have one and if it went bang tomorrow i would order another straight away , its become essential to me now .

http://www.amtechuk.co.uk/shop/3_KW_Inline_Heat_Exchanger-pid-181.html