[Gerald Ash]

Just read a thread where a member labels window cleaners as unskilled workers.
  How many people pay minimum wage then are puzzled about the high turnover of staff.
 I will employ people next year and this how they will be remunerated.
 Firstly, they will be paid a living wage, currently £7.85 per hour. Secondly, they will share 50 per cent of the profit that their van makes.
They will be manual workers as well as sales staff and also customer service reps. they  will be doing all the work to profit me so I think they should receive the lions share. My present round will, for a period of time, be funding the wage. I will be making enough to pay a wage and myself.
   The wage I pay will obviously be a cost so as long as they work at a profit all`s fine. Of the  50 per cent I get I estimate that half of that will be retained for holiday and down days.
My theory is that the person I employ will directly benefit from how hard they work plus they are less likely to run off with my customers in a few months time.
 I would appreciate comments on this, advice and maybe condemnation would be forthcoming as well. Merry Christmas to everyone.

[Small but perfectley formed]

Sounds good hope it works

[Tom White]

When it comes to working, money isn't the only motivating factor.  

If it were, we'd be out working now, instead of taking today off, to go for a nice breakfast and do some Christmas shopping.

One thing that has always put me off with regards to employing is that I'd have to set an example, and that would mean not taking sneaky days off like today; but that's just me.

Have a read up on some leadership and management theory, like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and Douglas McGregor's XY Theory.  There's loads of others that I can't remember.

If I were to employ, I'd look for ex-forces guys, like Stu, because even junior ranks in the military get a lot of leadership training.  I'd choose them so I could delegate as much as I could (job expansion is a good thing for an employee), allowing me time to do other things, or go for a nice breakfast and do some Christmas shopping.

Oh, your initial post is very 'Maslow' by the way.  We all need our basic needs (food, shelter, clothing - three hots and a cot) catered for; hence a living wage is a good thing.  But there comes a point where money won't motivate; there's been lots of studies done around this area.

[Scrimble]

Ash your plan is completely flawed, what happens when it comes to costs? Van breakdowns? Etc

I take it you have zero experience employing staff?

Define "profit the van makes" or do you mean turn over minus diesel?

[steve rix]

Ash your plan is completely flawed, what happens when it comes to costs? Van breakdowns? Etc

I take it you have zero experience employing staff?

Define "profit the van makes" or do you mean turn over minus diesel?

+1

[Griffus]

Gerald, in an ideal world..........

I'm guessing you're pretty new to this.

No offence intended as I can see your intentions are honourable but you need to rethink you're entire business plan with regard to basic rate and the profit sharing element will finish you before you start.

[Griffus]

There you go, three of us in one go saying the same thing.

Maybe just stay employed and learn a bit more from the safety cushion that offers

[Sean Dyer]

I ll work for you for 7.85an hr plus 50% of the profit

[TomCrowther]

I pay £10 per hour which is a decent hourly rate. Offer them performance related pay to encourage them to work to a high standard and pace but you can not offer 50% of the profit without first deducting all your costs which include holiday pay, sick pay, insurances, tools, van depreciation, fuel, stationery, uniforms, ink, pens, gloves, cloths you get the idea...

[Tom White]

I pay £10 per hour which is a decent hourly rate. Offer them performance related pay to encourage them to work to a high standard and pace but you can not offer 50% of the profit without first deducting all your costs which include holiday pay, sick pay, insurances, tools, van depreciation, fuel, stationery, uniforms, ink, pens, gloves, cloths you get the idea...

Profit = Turnover - Expenses

I think you need to delete 'profit' and insert 'turnover'.

And the OP did say 'profit', not turnover, so I would assume he meant what you just posted.

[Gerald Ash]

My explanation didn`t go into much detail and I understand about profit and turnover. Any employee will run their van as though it was  their own business, they will be given one year to make it pay. I firmly believe in this model of business but will research the maslow thanks Tosh.
    Each employee will have a different name on the van so 1, each can be run effectively as a different account/business and 2, If one loses a customer for what ever reason another employee can try to regain the customer.
   I don`t know much about advanced business theory but I do believe that a business should be ran from the bottom up. In my old industry of shoe repairs in which I employed people as well as couriers and market trading Timpson`s use bottom up business practice and are very successful because of it.
   If someone isn`t pulling their weight then they`re out. I want to be a good employer but they have to be good employees.
  I have researched all this and the only thing that will cause it to fail is the people I take on. Of course that is the difficult part and I know that is the only possible flaw, be it a big one.
     I can set up a van to work from all in for two thousand. That I will absorb. The wages which will roughly be £11 per hour after PAYE costs.
 That will be approximately £60 pound a day or £300 per five day week. I think it can work as I look at it as duplication of me. I work my round and use some of the money to set up another van. I will not be able to take any money from that van for a year or so but build thing s slowly with a view to long term it`ll work. Finally, At any point it threatens the overall business it`ll be stopped. I appreciate any input because it helps with things I may not have thought of. Cheers guys

[Sean Dyer]

so they will canvass their own work ?

[Perfect Windows]

Why not franchise?

Vin

[Dave Willis]

customers? Do you think you can get enough of them? Are you stacked out with so much work at the moment you can't cope on your own?

Have you won the lottery?

[Don Kee]

Have i read this right, £7.85 + 50% of profit of what they've cleaned?

So an 7 hour day (assuming lunch hour is unpaid?) x 7.85 = £55 (bar a few pence)
They clean £150 (easier to work out) take out £30(ish) a day expenses means another £60 a day...

So you're looking at paying £120ish a day....?

(Genuine question, not sarcy!)

[Window Lickers]

Secondly, they will share 50 per cent of the profit that their van makes.

These are the kind of figures a partner gets not an employee. Think about it Gerald 

[Ian101]

not getting into wages as that's your business but would want all my customers knowing it was my company cleaning them .... doing it your way would make it easier for a rouge employee to nick all of your customers IMHO

[Deangsi]

The more you pay them the more tax you and them pay on it there is a fine balance. You don't really want to be teaching someone how to canvass properly or anything to do with running a business they will set up on there own eventually no matter what you pay them if they have that sort of mentality. You need to do alot of proper interviewing and don't employ mates or family ideally you want previous references from jobs. If there to ambitious you don't want them. If they go to the pub every night you don't want them, just go carefull with it and really concider all the costs. Cashflow can be a problem also

[Deangsi]

not getting into wages as that's your business but would want all my customers knowing it was my company cleaning them .... doing it your way would make it easier for a rouge employee to nick all of your customers IMHO

Agreed!!

[Gerald Ash]

 If I`d won the lottery I wouldn`t be planning this. My theory is they can earn very good money without the hassle of running their own business. When they can`t work they get paid. If someone offered me a job on these terms I`d jump at it.
  Finding the right people IS going to be the nightmare. An intelligent person will see the advantages for them but may decide to start up on their own anyway.
   Franchises are a possibility but they are again complex and you have little control on people using your name. The daily costs will be deducted from take and split 50/50. I won`t get to keep much in reality but the point is I have a van and man out there earning me money. I  have one hundred per cent of what I make but maybe ten percent of what they make but I`m not working for that ten percent, duplication of me that`s the idea. As to the work I have, well I have enough to pay a wage but not as yet a big enough cushion to start. As I said in the very beginning on this forum I don`t need much to live on. I know the details fully and as long as I can find the right person to start it will work but again that`s the flaw.
I know it may sound crazy but it`s unusual to think about running a business in this manner. I believe it will work but admit it will be risky to start with and be risky in some ways long term as employees could walk off with customers but thats a risk for everyone.
There is another reason, I`m fit and strong at thirty stone but at 48 I know my body will give up on me in the next ten years if I`m lucky maybe less so I have to set up something soon.