[Perfect Windows]

Gerald; you're making a serious mistake if you think that simply paying people more will make them work better.  There are reams and reams of studies and evidence that contradict that.  Have a look at the presentation I linked to above.  More money tends to make people do their job worse and to be unhappier in their work.  Odd but true.

Vin

[Dave Willis]

I'm sure the Tesco executives would agree.

[Gerald Ash]

Sorry Vin can`t find link but I partially disagree because it isn`t all about money. I want to build something for my decrepitude  but not only that help someone build a good living. So many people work long hours for poor pay but that isn`t about the money even then it`s quality of life. At minimum  wage on 40 hours that would be £260 with roughly £30 deducted. At living wage it`s nearly £40 more a week, put that together with profit share then after a year of hard work they have the chance to have that quality of life.
 When I started I worked from 8am until 8pm with no breaks. Now I start at 9am and finish at 1 or 2pm then a couple of hours canvassing in the evenings. come the spring I`ll be back at  twelve hour days to boost the company further to buy a van then hopefully later in the year employ.
   You get out of life what you put in is not a cliche it is the truth. What I put into helping an employee I will get out, not only in money but in the fact that I will help a parent spend more time with their child or possibly an ex serviceman build a life in civilian life.
 That`s the plan. It will take money but it`s not all about the money

[supernova77]

Gerald; you're making a serious mistake if you think that simply paying people more will make them work better.  There are reams and reams of studies and evidence that contradict that.  Have a look at the presentation I linked to above.  More money tends to make people do their job worse and to be unhappier in their work.  Odd but true.

Vin

Very true...

I've had experience in the past of giving someone a pay rise and then their quality of work dropped, they started turning up late a lot of the time, their attitude got worse... It's because they got complacent... I got rid of them in the end.

Andy

[Gerald Ash]

Simple, if they p me about they`re down the road. As I`ve said things will be made very clear and if they behave as I require it will be heaven to work for if not hell is short lived. People seem to hesitate when things need saying but if you leave it then it becomes harder. Speak your mind and address them adult to adult, not parent to child or child to parent. bBe fair, calm and assertive that is the only way you should treat anyone  99 per cent of the time.

[Dave Willis]

Gerald, if you're only working half a day now, how many more customers do you think you're going to need to get another van going 3x what you have now or more?

[ptwt]

Based on my limited experience employing,  I would say best way to take on employees is to start them off in the van with you. This keeps costs down gives you the chance to see their true character, speed and quality of work and how they interact with customers. Customers will also get used to the new face and associate them with you. This will also bring in more money before paying out for another van and equipment. If it works and they are trustworthy and you have too much work for 2 people this is when you set up another van for them and then take on another employee who you can train and assess.

You said someone younger and fitter than you will do more work than you, this is wrong, an employee will not have same motivation as you. A round earning a good income for a one man band will not necessary be priced right for employing so a hard price rise may also be needed before employing as your work will need to be very well priced.
Finally I believe a good rule is what every an employee costs a business is what a business should make from the employee as the business has things the employee doesn't eg equipment, customer base etc


 

[Griffus]

FFS 

[Walter Mitty]

Again if they build it to an exceptional level that is a risk. I would counter that with a higher cut of profits above a certain level. Perhaps if they exceed £200 a day then they keep whats over 200 less costs and tax/NI.
 At that level I should be getting approximately £50 a day which for doing very little isn`t bad I think. There are guys on here claiming £500 a day which you deduct the 50 percent bravado isn`t far short.

Hi Gerald.  I've never employed anyone.  If you are going to set up something with fixed numbers like that, ensure there is some wriggle room to allow for inflation if you intend to be  in this for the long term.  It's easy to ignore at the moment with low inflation rates - but there was a time when the annual inflation rate hit 25% way back.  Even at 5%, the value of money depreciates quite quickly (taking compound interest into account).

[Walter Mitty]

Simple, if they p me about they`re down the road. As I`ve said things will be made very clear and if they behave as I require it will be heaven to work for if not hell is short lived. People seem to hesitate when things need saying but if you leave it then it becomes harder. Speak your mind and address them adult to adult, not parent to child or child to parent. bBe fair, calm and assertive that is the only way you should treat anyone  99 per cent of the time.

Sounds like a bit of transactional analysis there - or whatever they call it these days.  Adult-adult is brilliant.  Unfortunately, some people slip into child mode as a long ingrained habit and it can be very difficult to help them break it; partly because they don't know that they are doing it and partly because such things are usually better left to those who have undergone the appropriate psychological training.
I really do applaud your ethics Gerald.  For it to work in business, I suspect that you will need to find people who share those ethics.  That last bit can be difficult.  As a sidetrack, I've noticed that in places where I've worked as an employee (a long time back) the personality of the boss is often reflected a long way down the hierarchy - even through multiple layers down to the shop floor.  It's as if each level employs kindred spirits without actually realising it

[NWH]

To pay his wages insurances running a van and everything that goes with it your figures are way way off IMO,your not even working out on 365 days a year sunshine. He wants to be doing  1k a week on his own to even bother straight away you'll be over the VAT limit so when you cost that and all his benefits you'll be worse off

[Gerald Ash]

Bugger VAT is something I hadn`t thought of, will have to look into that. May be able to adjust to stay under. not sure what level of turnover you have to register. I know that it used to be one quarter to start but you had to be under three quarters to deregister.
 You may have shot me down in flames NWH. Better now than next year but I dare say there might be a way round it hopefully.
  I could register a separate LTD company as minority director then VAT will be treated as separate from any where I`m a majority director but that will only work once.

[Deangsi]

Get someone to come and work with you start them on £7 per hour and build up your business from there. You deal with customers and canvassing and tell him as little as possible in regards to how you started up,how to canvass successfully what u charge. Tell him nothing, when he has proved himself and you have a big enough round send him in a van on his £7 an hour but give him monthly bonuses for hitting targets. Inform all customers by no means are they to pay him as he will start looking at the cash and resenting it. Secondly make your system look complicated or box the pump battery etc in and tell him nothing at all about how the setup works the less they know the better in my opinion, all they need to know is how to do a good Jo and hit there targets

[Gerald Ash]

I must admit my model is not simple to execute and is open to abuse from an employee. A straight forward wage is simple but still open to abuse.
 I have definitely had my idea battered and yes I will concede it does look in the light of what has been said flawed in many ways. I`m thinking of still doing it but employ in a much simpler way first.
I still know it will work but with some mods. I`m also considering franchise but not for a while to say the least.
 I need to build something to give me a living within the next two to five years.

[Ian101]

Gerald ... think your vastly vastly over complicating things ... remember its only window cleaning 

if you want to be a very generous / fair employer then drop the hourly rate to nothing and pay him a share of the vans turnover less expenses.

EG Van does £200 ... take of £5 for fuel and say £25 for other expenses then "pay" him 50% of whats left ... even that prob too generous but you could alter figures to suit yourselve ... if van don't work due to weather then nowt to pay out.

[Window Lickers]

Get someone to come and work with you start them on £7 per hour and build up your business from there. You deal with customers and canvassing and tell him as little as possible in regards to how you started up,how to canvass successfully what u charge. Tell him nothing, when he has proved himself and you have a big enough round send him in a van on his £7 an hour but give him monthly bonuses for hitting targets. Inform all customers by no means are they to pay him as he will start looking at the cash and resenting it. Secondly make your system look complicated or box the pump battery etc in and tell him nothing at all about how the setup works the less they know the better in my opinion, all they need to know is how to do a good Jo and hit there targets

 

Thats funny.

[PoleKing]

Gerald ... think your vastly vastly over complicating things ... remember its only window cleaning 

if you want to be a very generous / fair employer then drop the hourly rate to nothing and pay him a share of the vans turnover less expenses.

EG Van does £200 ... take of £5 for fuel and say £25 for other expenses then "pay" him 50% of whats left ... even that prob too generous but you could alter figures to suit yourselve ... if van don't work due to weather then nowt to pay out.

How I first got into windows was:
I cleaned his round using his van and I got 50%.
He paid for everything except diesel.
I could clean as much as I wanted of my own stuff as long as his work took president.
Maybe try that Gerald.
It's more than fair.