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brianbarber

  • Posts: 995
Grippamax Hydro heat
« on: November 19, 2014, 09:00:20 pm »
Hi guys ,
To those that use this hot water system day in day out

Any issues?


Thanks in advance

Mr B
If in doubt.....Leave it out !!

sunshine windows

  • Posts: 2361
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2014, 09:29:21 pm »
Is it diesel or gas?
To climb mount fuji you must first find a path
(Swindon, Wiltshire)

www.sunshinewindowcleaning.co.uk
www.sunshinesoftwashing.co.uk

robert mitchell

  • Posts: 1997
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 09:48:24 pm »
its diesel
www.ishinewindowcleaning.co.uk

The man who never made a mistake never made anything.

hasti

  • Posts: 498
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2014, 09:54:57 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkjYminKhug&feature=youtu.be

I spoke to this guy today and he has the pure freedom one, he said all these companies use the same heater which is Wobasto and he said they are brilliant, he has never had any problem with it, i know they are expensive, but i think in the long run works out cheaper.  :)

Scrimble

  • Posts: 2047
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 10:20:34 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkjYminKhug&feature=youtu.be

I spoke to this guy today and he has the pure freedom one, he said all these companies use the same heater which is Wobasto and he said they are brilliant, he has never had any problem with it, i know they are expensive, but i think in the long run works out cheaper.  :)

how can they work out cheaper? thats got to be the dumbest comment I have read on here for ages

they are 3k to buy vs a couple of hundred with gas
need a new burner every 1-2 years costing hundreds
are no better than gas
more expensive to run

hasti

  • Posts: 498
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2014, 07:31:03 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkjYminKhug&feature=youtu.be

I spoke to this guy today and he has the pure freedom one, he said all these companies use the same heater which is Wobasto and he said they are brilliant, he has never had any problem with it, i know they are expensive, but i think in the long run works out cheaper.  :)

how can they work out cheaper? thats got to be the dumbest comment I have read on here for ages

they are 3k to buy vs a couple of hundred with gas
need a new burner every 1-2 years costing hundreds
are no better than gas
more expensive to run

Why would be the dumbest comment ?
have you had an experience about these burners?
The guys i talk to about webasto haven't had any service done for at 5 years, and still going , one guys i talked to said has never serviced his, and still going.
These burners are leading equipment in the market so if it was rubbish, webasto would have been bankrupt long time ago.

Richard Shepherd

  • Posts: 311
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2014, 07:43:07 pm »
Bloke that services my van also does HGVs.

He said that a lot of night heaters are Webasto and they are one of the best, it is all about how you use them.

hasti

  • Posts: 498
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2014, 06:23:59 am »
Bloke that services my van also does HGVs.

He said that a lot of night heaters are Webasto and they are one of the best, it is all about how you use them.

Well said richard, well said, its all about the right knowledge and how you use the knowledge.

dd

  • Posts: 2568
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2014, 04:28:04 pm »
I think the problems arise with the Webasto  when it frequently cuts in and out which is what my Pure Freedom one does and I would not personally recommend it. Other suppliers/installers such as Ionics or Grippa may have set their systems up so this does not happen.

hasti

  • Posts: 498
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2014, 05:11:32 pm »
I think the problems arise with the Webasto  when it frequently cuts in and out which is what my Pure Freedom one does and I would not personally recommend it. Other suppliers/installers such as Ionics or Grippa may have set their systems up so this does not happen.

I spoke to a specialist today and he said that its suppose to cut out when you stop using the water, and starts again when you use the water, one very important thing he said was that, when you have been using the system for while and you do a lot of stop & starts as we do, every so often let the system run nonstop for about 1 hour, this clean up inside the burner. excellent information because this way, you wouldn't need to service it every 2 years.

dd

  • Posts: 2568
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2014, 06:03:12 pm »
I remember Spruce doing a good post on this a while ago the gist of which I tried to post above (he would explain it far better). All I know is I really do not rate the Isothermal 1 I have from Pure Freedom.

hasti

  • Posts: 498
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2014, 07:49:48 pm »
I remember Spruce doing a good post on this a while ago the gist of which I tried to post above (he would explain it far better). All I know is I really do not rate the Isothermal 1 I have from Pure Freedom.

I am defiantly going for it as i have heard  excellent reviews about it.

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3952
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2014, 09:19:49 pm »
I remember Spruce doing a good post on this a while ago the gist of which I tried to post above (he would explain it far better). All I know is I really do not rate the Isothermal 1 I have from Pure Freedom.

I am defiantly going for it as i have heard  excellent reviews about it.
You can buy mine if you want, won't be available til March tho.

hasti

  • Posts: 498
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2014, 09:34:07 pm »
I remember Spruce doing a good post on this a while ago the gist of which I tried to post above (he would explain it far better). All I know is I really do not rate the Isothermal 1 I have from Pure Freedom.

I am defiantly going for it as i have heard  excellent reviews about it.
You can buy mine if you want, won't be available til March tho.

Why won't it be ready till march?
 whats wrong with it?
I wouldn't buy these kind of equipment second hand, i will go straight to the right supplier and buy new  :)

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3952
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2014, 10:13:26 pm »
I remember Spruce doing a good post on this a while ago the gist of which I tried to post above (he would explain it far better). All I know is I really do not rate the Isothermal 1 I have from Pure Freedom.

I am defiantly going for it as i have heard  excellent reviews about it.
You can buy mine if you want, won't be available til March tho.

Why won't it be ready till march?
 whats wrong with it?
I wouldn't buy these kind of equipment second hand, i will go straight to the right supplier and buy new  :)
Why would there have to be something wrong with it because it's not available til March?   The reason it won't be available til then is I'm getting a new van in March.

hasti

  • Posts: 498
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2014, 11:14:18 pm »
I remember Spruce doing a good post on this a while ago the gist of which I tried to post above (he would explain it far better). All I know is I really do not rate the Isothermal 1 I have from Pure Freedom.

I am defiantly going for it as i have heard  excellent reviews about it.
You can buy mine if you want, won't be available til March tho.

Why won't it be ready till march?
 whats wrong with it?
I wouldn't buy these kind of equipment second hand, i will go straight to the right supplier and buy new  :)
Why would there have to be something wrong with it because it's not available til March?   The reason it won't be available til then is I'm getting a new van in March.

Well you can put it in a new van then  ;D

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3952
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2014, 12:27:10 pm »
I remember Spruce doing a good post on this a while ago the gist of which I tried to post above (he would explain it far better). All I know is I really do not rate the Isothermal 1 I have from Pure Freedom.

I am defiantly going for it as i have heard  excellent reviews about it.
You can buy mine if you want, won't be available til March tho.

Why won't it be ready till march?
 whats wrong with it?
I wouldn't buy these kind of equipment second hand, i will go straight to the right supplier and buy new  :)
Why would there have to be something wrong with it because it's not available til March?   The reason it won't be available til then is I'm getting a new van in March.

Well you can put it in a new van then  ;D
Well Iiiiiii'll beeee daaamned! now why didn't I think of that!  ;D ;D

Spruce

  • Posts: 8462
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2014, 07:33:13 pm »

I’m bracing myself for a ‘nuclear’ reaction.  ;D

The more I think about these on demand diesel heaters the more I realize that the majority of users are going to find that they are an expensive liability.

Webasto are a well respected manufacturer of these heaters and when used in their correct environment are first class performers. They are designed as block heaters to preheat diesel and petrol engines in freezing climates. The heater switches on and then runs flat out for 30 or 40 minutes heating the engines coolant water up. It can also be wired up to kick in the cars internal blower fan and defrost the car, ready for your journey.

The diesel ones work well when using ordinary road diesel, but even Webasto are advising that red diesel isn’t suitable to use.

When these units are supplied as water heaters for our industry, they are adapted to suit our requirements. A small internal water circuit is created with a small header tank and 1 or 2 heat exchangers to warm the water being pumped to the brush depending on the number of operators.

Initially the single operator systems favoured 5kw Webasto Thermo Top heaters, but these were quickly upgraded to 9kw as they didn’t produce enough heat. Whilst only 2.6kw is required to heat a flow of 1.5LPM by 25 degrees, a 5kw could barely cope when taking into consideration heat loss through the exhaust and other heat transfer inefficiencies. At 2LPM the same unit will only raise the water temperature by 18 degrees, which to all intense and purposes is luke warm.

A Wesbasto 90s is more than capable of heating these afore mentioned water flow rates to a much higher temperature for a single operator. However as soon as another operator is also drawing heat, the 90s will not keep up with both of them. The heater will rely on intermittent use by both users so heat in the internal circuit can be ‘shared’ between the 2.

The other issue the supplies have to decide on is how the hot water is distributed between the 2 heat exchangers. The early Heatwave Thermo2 divided the hot supply line into 2 so the hot water was equally distributed (in parallel). The later model I saw was linked in series. So if the first operator was drawing most of the heat, there is not much left for the second operator.  This issue has been raised by several different owners on this forum complaining at a poor heat output from one of the outputs where the other  is acceptable.

Another problem that some have had is that of cycling on and off. If an operator is like me and stops to chat, the heater will still operate and it will raise the water temperature in its internal circuit to 80 degrees C. It will then kick into reduced heat mode until the water reaches 84 degrees C.  It then switches off. If you switch your tap back on the heater will restart, but if you only use the system for a short burst, the heater will switch off again. This cycle of on and off is heavy on battery power and causes coking up of the burner and glowpin with costly premature failure.

For users like me the manufacturers of these systems need to add another heat exchanger and circulation pump controlled with a 12v digital temperature controller. Once the Webasto reaches 80 degrees C and reduces to half heat, the controller should activate this extra pump and bled the hot water from the heater into the WFP tank. As the temperature drops to 64 Degrees C the controller should deactivate the pump. This will allow heat to slowly build to 80 degrees C when the pump is again activated. This will keep the heater running on idle mode.

When I see how easy it was to install an 8 LPM Meny gas heater, even with fitting a Broan vent through the roof, and how effortlessly it runs, I can’t understand why these diesel heaters are still being bought.

This is my opinion.  ;D
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

SherwoodCleaningSe

  • Posts: 2368
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2014, 09:05:30 pm »
I have to agree with all that you have said Spruce.  I'm surprised that there is very little happening in the way of development from suppliers to make an LPG unit rather than diesel units.

I've a friend who got a so called pro webasto system from a reputable supplier.  He didn't use the hot through the summer due to the cost and when he got back to the winter the burners coked up in a few weeks due to the reasons you have stated.  Some suppliers may use different internal plumbing to avoid the coke up issue.

I have 2 gas boilers running all year round, and to replace the whole units would cost less than replacing the burners on a webasto.  The running cost is also a lot less with gas.

However carrying gas does limit your choice of insurance companies and maybe that's why suppliers push them on the market.  I also wonder if a supplier started making branded LPG boilers, how much would they charge.  On ebay at the moment you can get them for around £100 each.  I'd be interested to see how Grippa have implemented the internal plumbing on the diesel heaters though.

Simon.

Plankton

  • Posts: 2441
Re: Grippamax Hydro heat
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2014, 09:23:25 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkjYminKhug&feature=youtu.be

I spoke to this guy today and he has the pure freedom one, he said all these companies use the same heater which is Wobasto and he said they are brilliant, he has never had any problem with it, i know they are expensive, but i think in the long run works out cheaper.  :)

how can they work out cheaper? thats got to be the dumbest comment I have read on here for ages

they are 3k to buy vs a couple of hundred with gas
need a new burner every 1-2 years costing hundreds
are no better than gas
more expensive to run

Why would be the dumbest comment ?
have you had an experience about these burners?
The guys i talk to about webasto haven't had any service done for at 5 years, and still going , one guys i talked to said has never serviced his, and still going.
These burners are leading equipment in the market so if it was rubbish, webasto would have been bankrupt long time ago.
I'm interested to know what your calculations were in the long run.