[john martin]

Sound John,whats your mixture like in hot water,does it stick together are dissolve completely.what you save on a average 5 kg of powder from a supplier to John Martins carpet cleaning cocktail

Im not sure if i dissolved it in really hot water , in luke warm to hot its quick .  How much saving is hard to compare , its a fraction of the microsplitter type products which it is similar to at this stage , its still not as complex as some of the detergent powders though .

[john martin]

sorry if this thread is driving anyone to despair now 

Regarding Mistrals mixed carpet powder mentioned on the last page .
Barry kelly of Mistral was replying to my querys at 11 last night  ,  he says is a mix of phosphate , sodium carbonate , sodium metasilate , and a powder surfactant blend they buy in ( which is typically alcohol excolated  and a few others , which are processed into the powder )  and some fragrance . he said there is sodium sulphate but at about only  5% .
He explained that the main function of the sulphate bulking is give a free flowing uniform powder , so if the powder mix is the very fine soda ash and phosphate it would be very dence and flow poorly , the sulphate decreases the density . It more about appearance , density , flow etc .
however it is still dilution if its use in large % , its serves no cleaning function . 
So Mistrals powder looks like very good value coming at about 2.20 per kilo incl vat/post .
It would be at least twice that and more from a carpet supplier so you are effectively cutting out one of the middle men ( sorry middle men )  . I think i will give it a go at some stage .

[PaulKing]

why is this thread making me think of breaking bad ?

[Mike Halliday]

sorry if this thread is driving anyone to despair now 

Regarding Mistrals mixed carpet powder mentioned on the last page .
Barry kelly of Mistral was replying to my querys at 11 last night  ,  he says is a mix of phosphate , sodium carbonate , sodium metasilate , and a powder surfactant blend they buy in ( which is typically alcohol excolated  and a few others , which are processed into the powder )  and some fragrance . he said there is sodium sulphate but at about only  5% .
He explained that the main function of the sulphate bulking is give a free flowing uniform powder , so if the powder mix is the very fine soda ash and phosphate it would be very dence and flow poorly , the sulphate decreases the density . It more about appearance , density , flow etc .
however it is still dilution if its use in large % , its serves no cleaning function . 
So Mistrals powder looks like very good value coming at about 2.20 per kilo incl vat/post .
It would be at least twice that and more from a carpet supplier so you are effectively cutting out one of the middle men ( sorry middle men )  . I think i will give it a go at some stage .

It dilutes at:  For every litre of water add 10–20g of powder and mix. (10g per lt)

Formula 90: Portable 28/56g to 20L water. (1.4g per lt)

So at their weakest dilution you would use more than 5 times as much mistral powder compared to F90.

...... Not as cheap as it first appears.

But the serious question is WHY???

What does Chemspec add that makes it 5 times more effective? if like you say the mistral powder has very little fillers

[john martin]

 Thats because there is no correct or standard dilution ratio .
 Mistral could have picked what chemspec picked or vice versa .
 

[Mike Halliday]

 

Chemspec don't know the correct dilution of their chemicals??

More likely they use better base ingredient which are more effective,

Bit like coffee , their are 100s of versions of coffee all 100% arabica beans all of them different strengths & quality.

[john martin]

 Look at the sodium carbonate bag in my pic , over 99% pure , how pure do u want 

 The recommended dilution is an average figure not a set in stone gospel must do .

 Chemspec are a mainstream carpet powder supplier , i would say the figure they pick is based on what is competitive in the market , if they sounded like they needed to more concentrated than prochem for example then u would think u are getting better value there and switch .
 For Mistral  carpet powder is is small portion of their sales products and who knows who they consulted or came up with the chosen printed ratios .

 If you come across something dirty i bet u whack in a bit more product , so there gos the recommended figure , its a meaningless average .

[Mike Halliday]

 The problem  is everything you say is guesswork based on your opinion & limited knowledge but you state it as fact. you call chemicals of which you have no real experience ineffective & expensive but this is based not on years of using it but looking at an ingredient list.

 now you are saying reputable companies just give dilution rates based on market trends not on the recommendation of their qualified chemist. ( of which they will have many of)

Just reading instructions & MSDS SHEETS does not qualify as knowledge of a particular chemical.

It might be better if you stick to giving info on vac motors where you can read the exact specification on the manufactures website and stop guessing what companies put into their solutions.

[john martin]

The problem  is everything you say is guesswork based on your opinion & limited knowledge but you state it as fact. you call chemicals of which you have no real experience ineffective & expensive but this is based not on years of using it but looking at an ingredient list.

 now you are saying reputable companies just give dilution rates based on market trends not on the recommendation of their qualified chemist. ( of which they will have many of)

Just reading instructions & MSDS SHEETS does not qualify as knowledge of a particular chemical.

It might be better if you stick to giving info on vac motors where you can read the exact specification on the manufactures website and stop guessing what companies put into their solutions.

Was my guesswork homebrew with no proper dilution rates bringing me the WoW factor today  ...   

     Hell Yeah !

   

[Peter Sweeney]

But with that fabric, hot water on its with no chemical you would get the same result, or at least very similar.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

I have thought about formulating my own powder but in the end I have settled for having  two stock powders and adjusting them as necessary with enzymes etc.

As some of you know I do not believe in using enzymes where they are not beneficial and potentially harmful.

You have to weigh up whether all the effort is worth it to save you a fiver a week.

Cheers

Doug

[john martin]

Hi Guys

I have thought about formulating my own powder but in the end I have settled for having  two stock powders and adjusting them as necessary with enzymes etc.

As some of you know I do not believe in using enzymes where they are not beneficial and potentially harmful.

You have to weigh up whether all the effort is worth it to save you a fiver a week.

Cheers

Doug

Doug , do u know of any online source to buy an enzyme mix ?

[Doug Holloway]

Hi John

Not anymore.

There are a few companies Novo Nordisk was one I dealt with some years ago.

Cheers

Doug

[john martin]

Hi John

Not anymore.

There are a few companies Novo Nordisk was one I dealt with some years ago.

Cheers

Doug

Digestive supplements  ? 

Papain is cheap  , also found a variety mix  .
Not sure if there is enough to be of good value .
Could pop a couple of pills in when cleaning something greasy ?

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Bromelain-and-Papain-100mg-30-tablets-anti-inflammatory-digestive-enzymes-/221392576575?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item338c06a03f

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Papain-Amylase-Lipase-Protease-Pepsin-Pancreatin-x180-/281086261851?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item41720bfa5b

[Carpet Dawg]

you can send me a sample and i'll be happy to trial some of your home brew John

[john martin]

you can send me a sample and i'll be happy to trial some of your home brew John

Thanks ,  I think it still needs a bit of tweeking  , at the moment its only better than Pureclean  and SPM  and a few others .

[CleanerCarpets]

Reviving an old thread - John are you still mixing your own?

[john martin]

Reviving and old thread - John are you still mixing your own?

I think Doug said it best a few posts back ..'  you have to weigh up is it worth the effort ' 
Its not worth the effort making an ultimate master or f90 type powder  ,  it might be worth it if u want a high PH powder for occasional use or something ,
I would make a citrus prespray as i was that a lot ... but mistral dont stock Limonene and i cant get bulk to where i am without paying the same again in shipping ,
so no , the only things i get regular from mistral are lavender deodouriser , acetone and a few bits