[John Kelly]

Seems to me a distraction from doing the important things in your business ie marketing. Being a supplier I would say that. But the time and effort for the saving you'd make seems pointless.

[john martin]

Seems to me a distraction from doing the important things in your business ie marketing. Being a supplier I would say that. But the time and effort for the saving you'd make seems pointless.

I do take the ' is it worth it ' point  but its something i want to explore for myself .

I can afford the branded powders and liquids ( although  i manage to go through the at an alarming rate ) 

There are some complex branded formulations that i have a lot of respect for , but there are one to three ingredient products out there also using some of the ingredients i have above selling for up to £70 for 10kg 
and heres the thing with most of them  ...  add up the % of usefull cleaning ingredients in them ... it usually amounts to 50% of total volume ...  what is the other 50%  ..
this stuff ...
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-supplier-Sodium-Sulphate-Anhydrous-99_1964178697.html?s=p

so my cleaning powder at £23 for 10kg is actually about £11 for 10kg .

The time and effort is pretty minimal  ... so far i ordered on line and opened the box .
next i spent a few mins mixing the powder  ... and im ready to go

[Peter Sweeney]

And with this new chemical you have now made up, you of course will have an MSDS sheet to go with it?

[john martin]

And with this new chemical you have now made up, you of course will have an MSDS sheet to go with it?

That would be the responsibility of my supplier 

[John Kelly]

If you blend chemicals yourself then you are responsible for producing a safety data sheet. Not an easy excercise, then if you are just using it yourself you may get away with it. However by law you are supposed to carry one on the vehicle and also some commercial customers like to inspect the products you are using.

[john martin]

 Yes , for my own use only .  I bought six cleaning products from a supplier .
 If i mix them its the same as someone buying for example a 'microsplitter' and adding energizer . That is then a completely different product .

[Mike Halliday]

For personal interest I can see why you are doing this, but if the goal is to save money then I think you are going in the completely wrong direction, rather than make your own, look how to eliminate  the need for them in the first place.

Are you making pre-sprays or rinse agents?

Looking at the cleaning pie......if you get rid of the chemical you increase dwell time, agitation or heat, I know this is taking the topic in the wrong direction and should have its own thread but I use on 95% of jobs pureclean and a reverse osmosis water rinse.

On some jobs I just rinse with the water and no prespray. ( just using a trigger spray to spot as I go and my boot for aggatation)

I did a job on Friday where I just rinsed the carpet with no regard for removing the stains or spots then when I finished it's was  85%ish clean then I just spotted the other 15% and did a second rinse...... I think I used 500ml of actual pure-clean.

This was using very hot water at a high flow rate

[jim mca]

Hope you are enjoying yourself John looks like good fun wont be long until you are the biggest supplier of machines and chemicals in Europe 

[Brendan (chem2clean)]

Like to hear how you get on. Maybe you could try the same with spotters.

[john martin]

  Yes , i will be making a general liquid a bit like prespray gold and perhaps something a bit more solventy for spots .  The bought liquids are 60-80% water you know 

Mike , your choice of inefficient and overpriced cleaning powder is compensated ,like u say , by your purified water , truckmount flow , consistant heat and moonwalking the stains  .  It is easier for me to increase my chemical segment of the pie and with my homemade powder i wont feel screwed laying it down triple strength to get the wow factor .

[Mike Halliday]

John why do you think pure clean is  inefficient  & over priced? What's the ingredients, is it full of fillers? How much of it did you try to formulate your opinion of it?

Can you buy it as a base ingredient?

I also bonnet with it and find it gives the same results as all the other bonnet chemicals at a much lower price.

[heritagecleaning]

Think I will stick with Chemspec, as someone has already said chems are such a low outlay why wouldyou bother trying to mix your own ? Not for me anyway




Stuart

Plus it could be very dangerous, may be illegal without licencing and people who mix chemicals at home could always end up with an armed response unit surrounding the house!

[john martin]

John why do you think pure clean is  inefficient  & over priced? What's the ingredients, is it full of fillers? How much of it did you try to formulate your opinion of it?

Can you buy it as a base ingredient?

I also bonnet with it and find it gives the same results as all the other bonnet chemicals at a much lower price.

Pure clean is about 35% phosphate similar to the sodium tripolyphosphate i got above . They also include just 1% of a fluorinated wetting agent which would serve the same purpose and be quite similar in use to the MES in my ingredients above .
The rest is likely the bulking agent as it seems the norm in powder detergents to bulk up at about 40 to 60% .
The USP with these eco type products seems to be what it does not include more that what it does  .  
The more complex powders might have five or six ingredients each serving there own purpose .
but if pureclean works for you , then it works . I would think the more complex powders give u more for the money .
But at least it has a bit of wetting agent .  The ' microsplitter ' marketed powder is just the phosphate with nothing ... well the bulking agent perhaps .

Its not dangerous !  


 

[David Ware]

John why do you think pure clean is  inefficient  & over priced? What's the ingredients, is it full of fillers? How much of it did you try to formulate your opinion of it?

Can you buy it as a base ingredient?

I also bonnet with it and find it gives the same results as all the other bonnet chemicals at a much lower price.

Pure clean is about 35% phosphate similar to the sodium tripolyphosphate is got above . They also include just 1% of a fluorinated wetting agent which would serve the same purpose and be quite similar in use to the MES in my ingredients above .
The rest is likely the bulking agent as it seems the norm in powder detergents to bulk up at about 40 to 60% .
The USP with these eco type products seems to be what it does not include more that what it does  .   
The more complex powders might have five or six ingredients each serving there own purpose .
but if pureclean works for you , then it works . I would think the more complex powders give u more for the money .
But at least it has a bit of wetting agent .  The ' microsplitter ' marketed powder is just the phosphate with nothing ... well the bulking agent perhaps .

Its not dangerous !   


 

All the best to you John, not my way but credit to you for trying, if what you are saying about the bulking that goes into powdered cleaning agents is true then you should have nothing to loose. Keep us  updated with your progress
David 

[stuart_clark]

John

I use pure clean on the rare occasion , its good for ph sensitive upholstery, but as far as I am aware it aint an eco product as its full of phosphates and what is eco friendly about them ?


Stuart

[john martin]

John

I use pure clean on the rare occasion , its good for ph sensitive upholstery, but as far as I am aware it aint an eco product as its full of phosphates and what is eco friendly about them ?


Stuart

True , i guess i tend to associate these ' very little to them ' products with the ECO usp .
So pure clean is selling it self on ' not containing soap '  ... little or nothing does these days .
' not containing enzymes '  ... is that a good thing ? 
and '  not containing fragrance '  ... who cares or whats wrong with fragrance .

Any way what it should say it ' contains dam all ' apart from a bit of phosphate .
So why is selling almost twice the  price  of Ultimate Master that has about 7 ingredients including phosphate .

And prochems ' natural range ' powder  ...   whats its selling point 
' does not contain phosphate !!! ' 
so i has a bit of sodium carbonate instead .

its just rehashing the same basic ingredients and coming up with new ways to sell them to us .

I made 10kg of my powder , get a chance to use it tomorrow .  I kept the grated fels separate in a container , that would only be added if conditions suited .
I am infusing the fragrance by soaking a piece of brown paper in the oil and putting it in an airtight container with some of the powder , i will then add the powder to the rest .  Its a questionable decision to make a room smell like wriggles spearmint , but it might be mild in powder . 

[john martin]

 So i used the powder ...  works fine .  I mostly used it as an intank extraction rince today , i have nowhere with medium soiling to prespray /aggitate with it .   It dissolved fully and showed no residue when dry , and had no foaming .  I rinced / extracted a sofa fine . I was doing some hotel bedrooms most of  the day and intank is the quickest method i found , it did good there . Job in the evening i had to declare chemical warfare , ultrapac etc   .
Its pretty basic as is , i may make some up dissolved and add some Alcohol ethoxylate and perhaps 2-Butoxyethanol as both a prespray and to boost as an extraction rince .

[Brendan (chem2clean)]

Hey John,Mistral sell carpet cleaning powders,have you had a look at the ingredients in them?

[john martin]

Hey John,Mistral sell carpet cleaning powders,have you had a look at the ingredients in them?

 You mean they sell pre made powder after me grinding my pellets 

http://mistralie.co.uk/collections/home-and-janitorial/products/carpet-cleaner-powder-lfs-powder

  well i did spot it but i figured i'd try and make something without the sodium sulphate and try a few mixes .
I messaged them to see whats in it but they gave a half ass answer without listing the specifics . Il see if i can get anymore detail but it may be very good value as is .
Im sure its as good as most out there .

[Brendan (chem2clean)]

Sound John,whats your mixture like in hot water,does it stick together are dissolve completely.what you save on a average 5 kg of powder from a supplier to John Martins carpet cleaning cocktail