[Ben wood]

Mick you said a while back that
You built your father in law a round in two months. So why wouldn't any one else do it

[Mick Kent]

Smudger mate i didnt say your a lier! You made a dig that was made as a personal dig at me saying you would question your ability if 25% dropped whilst building for which i simply said i was happy with and have always found to be the norm from all the canvassing i have done over the years for myself and others.
I wasnt doubting a success at all as you seem to have done realy well and much better than be! in fact all i doubted was you saying you only had a 2-3 percent drop rate whilst building over the first 6 months as i have never seen or had it that low.

[Mick Kent]

Mick you said a while back that
You built your father in law a round in two months. So why wouldn't any one else do it

Err?? Whats building a round got to do with the drop rate of 6 months??
The final drop rate of my step dads round was over 30 percent after 6 months, only had a few in the first month as was a husband and wife team but after they spotted the messers and problems and had the not happy brigades and the unreliables the drop off rate grows untill your left with the "ideal customer base from your building".
Maybe you missread what i was saying.

[Smudger]

I dont believe anyone who say they lost only a few percent whilst building up!

Your words mick

No dig at you Mick, quite simply if when starting out I was losing 25 percent of customers that quickly I personally (as stated) would have doubted my ability at doing the job correctly and would have packed up, fair play to your persistence

Darran

[richywilts]

Hmmmm..

So mick, I am a liar then? You choose to call me this because I have built a round up in 3 months that replaced a 28k salary paye job. - you say that can't be done, but you can canvass and get 50 customers in an evening - well done mick !!

It's a shame that for one one who posting constantly on success that anyone else's experience must be fictional.

Anyway my experience is as follows, of the first 50 customers I canvassed 35 are still customers after 5 years - none of these dropped out in the first year, over the years some moved, one died, a few did did stop and I put the prices right up on the others because as you do when starting out are a little cheap (£7 for a bungalow with conny)
So they 'left' currently our fall out rate is maybe 2 customers per month is does vary on the time of year so that is around 0.02% of our domestic customer base. Been focused on building up pressure washing at the moment so not canvassed for windows, only leafleting and ad in the local rag but these bring in approx 100 enquiries per month of which I price and convert 65% of them

I'm always happy to help people on this forum and share experiences, ideas etc, I try to do it in an unbiased way

Darran

smudger thats a fair amount of enquiries your receiving every month just from leaflets and an advert in local rag how many leaflets do u drop a month on average?

[Smudger]

1k per week on friday/Saturday- not me personally we employ (self employed basis)
He's a fitness fanatic so jogs around the villages usually hits around 140 per hr paid £60 per 1000 and is paid a bonus £5 per lead that becomes a job - just to clarify not all of those 100 leads come from leaflets We advertise in the local rag, parish mags, internet, vans rec'ds, etc.
Darran

[Perfect Windows]

Ref the original question, how long is a piece of string?

How much time are you prepared to spend?
What frequency of cleans? (66% of ours are 12-weekly, so our rounds are much bigger)
How much money do you want to spend on leafletting if that's your choice?
How many days a year do you want to clean?
What time of year are you kicking off?

In summer, we fill a round in roughly 16 weeks.  Over winter last year it took 30 weeks.  But we're leafletting in volume and our franchises are based upon three day weeks.

If you're canvassing in summer, a customer per hour is reasonable.  If you're leafletting, work on about 4 customers per thousand leaflets.

Then you need to do the maths based upon the questions above to find out how long his definition of a "full" round will take to fill.

For us around 20% - 25% don't make it to the end of their first year with us.  One-offs and "three clean wonders" do that.

Vin

[sf]

3months to build a round 350 plus customers.10% bi monthly.
Giving a very liveable wage.
3years later still building and refining round.

[Mick Kent]

So seems about right then a 25 percent dropout rate whilst building as everyone else seems to have the same results.
I have rarely had better than  25 percent and have had as high as 50/75 percent drop in some cases for other people in lower earning areas/council and housing assosiation areas. I think a 75 percent average retaining retention after 6 months is brilliant for anyone building a window cleaning business and defo not to be ashamed of or doubtfull of ability to do the job itself.
I know i could go and canvass 400 customers within 6 months with a few helpers by my side and id guarantee at least 100 of those customers wont be customers anymore within 0-6 months many of them being within 2 months would be gone. Thats just my experiance from doing it on and off for 10 years.

[8weekly]

That is 30% in 5 years Darran. Thats about 6% a year. I guess I pose on average 2/3 a month now for all sorts of reasons. Messers are rare now. They are screened out before the first clean usually. The ones that cancel I am usually happy to lose. I have 450 customers.

[richywilts]

1k per week on friday/Saturday- not me personally we employ (self employed basis)
He's a fitness fanatic so jogs around the villages usually hits around 140 per hr paid £60 per 1000 and is paid a bonus £5 per lead that becomes a job - just to clarify not all of those 100 leads come from leaflets We advertise in the local rag, parish mags, internet, vans rec'ds, etc.
Darran

decent amount of steady work coming in tho, ive never really measure the amount of work that comes in might look at measuring it when i start again although i dont really need anymore work, ill still keep leaflet going out as i like to keep my business name known locally

[Paul Coleman]

It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then.  However, it started slowly for two main reasons.  I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning).  Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full.  However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job.  That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable.  So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing.  100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks.  150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly).  By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in.  So, say between 5 and 7.30.  2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri).  Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations.  There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.

All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines.  There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.

[groundhog]

He always does ste.groundhog  is a bit arrogant and argumentative to say the least!anyone remember his ridiculous video of him racing round a house with his harris pole a few years ago!comical!!haha.

You obviously have forgotten all the advice I gave you when you first started Dazmond! Not sure why I bothered? And as for my Harris pole video's, you weren't even a member of the forum back then! And although some were quick to criticise, many thanked me for showing how quickly it was possible to clean windows with wfp, even with the cheapest of poles!

[groundhog]

Lol i love this forum!!!
Ok go and build a full round in 2 months of course it can be done easy peasy!!!
Get real, a half decent round cant be built in 2 months! 6 months at a min to get a customer base thats reliable with someone who has never done window cleaning or canvassing before.
Im honest and am not ashamed that My average was 25% dropout rate over a 6 clean average from my canvassed customers which i was more than happy with. if you would only lose 2 or 3 a year whilst building up from all your canvassing/leafletting then you must be blessed with finding the best customers ever so fair play to you.
Why ask how long it will take if your gonna throw it back in peoples faces??
In the real world where im from good things dont just happen over night.
 

Who said anything about it being easy? But I can guarantee that if someone is determined enough and prepared to put in the work, then there really is no limit to how quickly and successfully a round can be built! Just because you couldn't do it, dosn't mean that nobody can!!

[Paul Coleman]

So I try to give a reasonable answer but the focus seems to be on slagging people off.
No wonder I'm on my 3rd or 4th account on this board.

[Mick Kent]

Lol i love this forum!!!
Ok go and build a full round in 2 months of course it can be done easy peasy!!!
Get real, a half decent round cant be built in 2 months! 6 months at a min to get a customer base thats reliable with someone who has never done window cleaning or canvassing before.
Im honest and am not ashamed that My average was 25% dropout rate over a 6 clean average from my canvassed customers which i was more than happy with. if you would only lose 2 or 3 a year whilst building up from all your canvassing/leafletting then you must be blessed with finding the best customers ever so fair play to you.
Why ask how long it will take if your gonna throw it back in peoples faces??
In the real world where im from good things dont just happen over night.
 

Who said anything about it being easy? But I can guarantee that if someone is determined enough and prepared to put in the work, then there really is no limit to how quickly and successfully a round can be built! Just because you couldn't do it, dosn't mean that nobody can!!

I couldnt do what??
I started again from scratch matey, I went from 0-1200 customers in 3 years going through over 2000 customers in total before cancelations and culling. No rubbish underpriced spread out customers, but decent compact mainly  front well priced customers! 2 vans out That do 25-35 jobs a day every day and are home by 3pm and never any later and never start any earlier than 9 unless doing commercial work..Lets see you manage to do that!.
But this isnt about me or you is it! You said how long for someone who hasnt a clue who hasnt done window cleaning or round building before to build a round with a steady income, all i said was it takes 2 years to build a half decent round and 6 months-a year before a half decent wage could be pulled from it. Why make a thread if you wont listen to anyone. Everyone has said the same 6-12 months to pull a livable wage (especialy if has a family) and min of 2 years to have a full round.

[groundhog]

It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then.  However, it started slowly for two main reasons.  I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning).  Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full.  However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job.  That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable.  So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing.  100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks.  150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly).  By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in.  So, say between 5 and 7.30.  2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri).  Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations.  There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.

All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines.  There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.

Thanks David, sorry I didn't comment earlier, this is good advice and I think that 2 or more customers per hour of canvassing is very achievable, which by my calculations would mean that it is perfectly possible to build a half decent round in a couple of months if you put your mind to it!!

[8weekly]

Another one today. I have just done a second clean. Was browsing Rightmove and it is newly advertised for sale. When you are looking for new work, a lot doesn't last the course.

[SeanK]

It took me about 6 months before I could live on the money - and my outgoings were very low back then.  However, it started slowly for two main reasons.  I started in October (1991) and many people were paying 15% on their mortgages back then - plus there was a lot of unemployment (the very reason that I started window cleaning).  Things accelerated after Britain pulled out of the ERM and interest rates plummeted.
I took about two years before I regarded my round as full.  However, I could have done it much more quickly than that as I didn't need a full round in order to live.
The first six months were a bit tough but I supplemented my income by going away one week per month on a self-employed driving job.  That slowed down the canvassing too.
So it's hard to give a straight answer because the economic pressures were different back then.
However, I reckon that two new customers per hour of canvassing should be comfortably attainable.  So let's say £30 per 6 weeks per hour of canvassing.  100 hours of canvassing should give £3,000 per 6 weeks.  150 hours of canvassing should give £4,500 per 6 weeks (if offering 6 weekly).  By canvassing, I mean after 5 PM when more people are in.  So, say between 5 and 7.30.  2.5 hours of canvassing per evening means that £3k a month turnover could be achieved after 60 weekdays (Mon - Fri).  Obviously weekends can be longer days.
There will be referrals and people who see you working who will ask for quotations.  There will also be expenses - generally much heavier at first.

All of the above assumes that the world grows in straight lines.  There will be customers who drop you after one or two cleans, others who drop you after 4 or 5 and others who mess you about so much that you drop them once you can afford to.

Thanks David, sorry I didn't comment earlier, this is good advice and I think that 2 or more customers per hour of canvassing is very achievable, which by my calculations would mean that it is perfectly possible to build a half decent round in a couple of months if you put your mind to it!!

You do read some nonsense on this forum at times, its possible to canvass 60 properties in two nights and get the whole 60
at £20 a go monthly.
Its also possible to get 150 new 20 pound monthly customers in one week which would give you an excellent living.
Two or more customers for every hour of canvassing is achievable if their are two or more customers who need and want a window cleaner.
Yes the more you get out there and chase the work the more you will improve you chances of succeeding, but there are no guarantees
in this or any business.
90% or more of the guys on here don't think its possible to build a round in such a short space of time, they have come to that conclusion because of their own experiences.
Does that mean its impossible ? absolutely not but it does mean the odds are against it.

[SeanK]

David Moyes is forgetting that back in 1991 window cleaning wasn't a profession that many
people wanted to get into unemployed or not.
Working from ladders had a lot to do with it.
WFP has changed this a lot which means we are all competing with a lot more window cleaners per
property than there would have been then.