[Tom White]

A few years back, in a really lovely area right by the River Wye, a neighbour of the house I was cleaning got annoyed with me because I have to stand on his drive to access a few side windows of my customer.  I was polite at the time, but he was unreasonable, and his wife told me to "ignore him" and ushered him away. 

So today I'm sat in my van and he approaches me and starts talking in 'roundabouts'.  So I say to him, "Look, just get to your point" (I guessed what his point was) and it was about his driveway gate being left open.  I explain to him that if it's open, I leave it open and if it's closed, when I leave, I make sure it's closed, but he gets arsey with me so I firmly tell him to leave me alone.  He doesn't so I say more firmly "Go away!" and I keep repeating it - loudly - until he does.  I was hot and couldn't be bothered with any of his nonsense.

Then two of his neighbours approach me and they ask me to dial 101 and report him.  I asked 'What for?' and they go on to explain that he's mental, often aggressive, and the neighbours all report him to the police.  One said "He takes photos of children too!", but I'm not sure what she meant by that in that she's either inferring he's a paedophile, but it could be also that he takes photos of children he thinks are troublemakers so he can report them to the police.

Anyway, I do actually go onto his property to clean my customers windows.  I think I've read somewhere here - some years back - about a similar situation that happened to someone and I would like to know what the law is.

I suspect I will be in the wrong if he doesn't get 24 hours notice (or something like that), and even if I am, I'll still trespass and clean my customers windows; he can phone the police or try and physically remove me if he likes; I'm not really bothered.

But does anyone know anything definitive with regards the law?

[PoleKing]

Would it be easier to just knock on his door and ask if you can stand on his drive for the 90 seconds or so that it takes to clean those windows?
You don't know mate, he could be on his way to dementia or something.
Something like that can cause people to flip out almost as bad as bipolar or something.
Won't hurt to give him a knock and a quick chat though.
That's what I'd do, certainly at first. Or the next time you're near, but not cleaning next door.

[Tom White]

I'd rather not knock to be honest; these are big properties and his house is some distance from the gate.  Lazy?  Maybe, but it also guarantees confrontation too; he's not going to be reasonable judging by my experience of him and what his neighbours say.

He's not that much older than me, so I'd be surprised if it's dementia (I'd put him late forties).  But he's obviously got some mental health issues going on.

[Mike #1]

Had a similar thing a good few years back in that I had to walk on a custys neighbours drive to access rear of the property .

Custy said neighbour would be absolutely fine about it , turns out she wasn't and for 8-9 months I had to knock and ask every single time and if I got no answer and she ended up been in she would come out in a stropp .

In the end I got sick and fed up and explained to custy is was not worth the hassle so could not continue with the windows , some people are on another planet and have nothing better to do than twist . Mike

[PoleKing]

I'd rather not knock to be honest; these are big properties and his house is some distance from the gate.  Lazy?  Maybe, but it also guarantees confrontation too; he's not going to be reasonable judging by my experience of him and what his neighbours say.

He's not that much older than me, so I'd be surprised if it's dementia (I'd put him late forties).  But he's obviously got some mental health issues going on.

Fair enough.
Just what I'd do bud. At the very least, you could hold your head up knowing you'd tried. (Not that you can't otherwise)

[Tom White]

Had a similar thing a good few years back in that I had to walk on a custys neighbours drive to access rear of the property .

I have another like this, but it's in my customer's deeds that access to the rear of her house is through her neighbours garden.  She told me there was a high possibility that he'd be funny with me, but I shrug shoulders and just crack on.

One time he did approach me and I just politely explained the situation to him (I'm just cleaning windows, not there to annoy anyone, and I'm not going to knock to ask permission because I can't be bothered and don't have to) and he's been fine ever since (well he walked off in a strop).

But the legal situation is clear cut because it's in the deeds of the house that access is gained via the neighbours garden (large Georgian terraced house).

[Pete Thompson]

My house (a new build) has a restrictive covenant built into the deeds that states we MUST allow neighbors or their contractors reasonable access to our land in order for them to make repairs or maintain their property.

I was quite surprised to see it, but have since learned it's a standard thing for new builds these days.

[Simon Mess]

I had a customer who put up a large wooden fence all the way round his property. 1st time i was there after it had been put up, he was at the front, so, although i did the windows that time, i asked him how i would get in under normal circumstances (he worked nights). He said i could get in through a gate joining his garden to his neighbours, which would have involved a much more awkward parking arrangement, reeling out a ridiculous amount of hose and trying to feed it round 3 rough surfaced walls!. For a £10 house?, i said thanks for the custom over the last few years but i am not doing that

[Tom White]

I had a customer who put up a large wooden fence all the way round his property. 1st time i was there after it had been put up, he was at the front, so, although i did the windows that time, i asked him how i would get in under normal circumstances (he worked nights). He said i could get in through a gate joining his garden to his neighbours, which would have involved a much more awkward parking arrangement, reeling out a ridiculous amount of hose and trying to feed it round 3 rough surfaced walls!. For a £10 house?, i said thanks for the custom over the last few years but i am not doing that

Couldn't you have hung the end of the hose over the fence, and then just walked around the rear, and once you're in the customers rear garden, grab the hose you'd hung over the fence?

I bet you could've! 

[pdale]

Under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 you don't need permission to enter a neighbours property for essential repairs/maintenance to your property.

If he wanted to play hardball it would mean going to a court to gain an Access Order, which the court would grant and award costs against him.

[Soupy]

Is cleaning windows essential maintenance?

[rah]

I had a neighbour issue years back, but also had a Planning barister on the books at the same time, anyway long story short!

You have to allow access for maintenance work to be carried out,  but should info the property owner of date's and times and lenght of time it is expected to take.

Rob.

[Johnny B]

I had one a few years ago. The customer had an uptairs maisonette, which required me to put the ladders on the garden below, which belonged to the lady below (a retired librarian, as it turned out). It was like a miniture Kew Gardens, plants, shrubs and pots everywhere.

I was warned that she was a bit funny, so being the charming chappy I was I thought I would be able to win her over. She stood and watched my every move, and let out a sharp intake of breath every time I got anywhere near the jungle.

I put up with this for a few months (same scenario every time) by which time I informed my customer that I couldn't work like this any more.

Some time later, I was working on another neighbour's house and Miss Retired Librarian was out tending to her cluttered jungle, and I saw her trip over one of her plant pots and went derriere over elbow. Now I know I shouldn't have laughed at the misfortune of another, but ... !!!

[pdale]

Is cleaning windows essential maintenance?

It doesn't have to be 'essential' maintenance but 'reasonable' maintenance according to legislation, for 'the maintenance, repair or renewal of any part of a building or other structure comprised in, or situate on, the dominant land;'

[Ian Lancaster]

From a practical point of view, simple trespass (as opposed to trespassing or being on enclosed premises with intent to commit a felony) is a civil, not criminal offence and as such is not within the jurisdiction of the police.  The only remedy available to the landowner is to sue for damages.  The landowner can require that you leave the premises when requested and failing to comply could become a criminal offence.

So, it takes you 10 minutes to clean the windows above his property, then you leave.  Not exactly immediate, but by the time he's managed to get Plod to take an interest it will probably nearly be time for your next visit  

[Paul Coleman]

As far as the OP goes.  I think I would have handled it in one of everal ways:
Option 1:  Drop the job - explaining the the neighbour is a PITA.
Option 2:  Re-quote the job without the offending windows.  Suggest that next time they replace the windows, buy ones that can be turned and cleaned from inside.
Option 3:  Re-quote the job but once a year, clean the offending windows.  Ask customer to inform neighbour that once per year you will be bon his property for a few minutes in the month of xxxx or yyyyy - depending upon your schedule.
Option 4: Egg the neighbour's windows.

[SeanK]

At the end of the day if the neighbour doesn't want you on their property then don't go on it.
Tell the customer the reason and clean the windows you can get at.
As for going to court to gain access, that would be up to the owner of the property to sort out and not the window
cleaner.

[Pete Thompson]

My policy is that anything requiring me to stand on someone else's property doesn't get cleaned, regardless if the property owner is happy or not.

If it can't be done from the customer's own land, then it doesn't get done. Too much hassle trying to deal with people who aren't even your customers.

Some people just hate having someone they haven't hired walking on their property every month, and to be honest I think that's fair enough.

[Positivity]

Some people are really mental.  
I clean a house but use the neighbours path to get to the back of the house customer was certain that they wouldn't mind as there is no other way except going over the garage.
Instead of carrying the small pointy ladder all the way around I lean it against the fence and lift it over when I'm round the back.
One day neighbour comes out and says "We've had the fence replaced as you can see. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lean your ladder against it!!"
Must be a territorial thing!!

[Clever Forum Name]

I will take a photograph if i remember next week.

On these new housing estates my pole goes over someones fence into their "airspace" to clean a skylight.

Cue a mad Italian women with a broom while she tries to smack the pole.

Funny as.