[H20cleaning]

Yes i totally agree! But you are within your rights to check up every now and again.

Also the guy i mentioned is good mates with the local "gangster" if you like so i imagine any money owed he would always get, likewise if i ever rented a property out.

But for most people it is a very risky way.

Hopefully the tenant doesn't go to the police to complain about the local bully boy demanding money with menaces and the said bully doesn'tthen sing like a canary (his type always do) and drop you right in it

I assure you the police would advise the money got paid as soon as they know he was involved haha

What a wonderful way to do business and a lovely area your tenants will be living

Well thats life isnt it! You dont pay your bills they catch up on you... Everyones out to make money!

[DG Cleaning]

Yes i totally agree! But you are within your rights to check up every now and again.

Also the guy i mentioned is good mates with the local "gangster" if you like so i imagine any money owed he would always get, likewise if i ever rented a property out.

But for most people it is a very risky way.

Hopefully the tenant doesn't go to the police to complain about the local bully boy demanding money with menaces and the said bully doesn'tthen sing like a canary (his type always do) and drop you right in it

I assure you the police would advise the money got paid as soon as they know he was involved haha

What a wonderful way to do business and a lovely area your tenants will be living

Well thats life isnt it! You dont pay your bills they catch up on you... Everyones out to make money!

The cowardly landlord who sends the local bell ends round to do his dirty work more like.

[PoleKing]

Getting back to the OP.
Am I the only one who'd be quite happy never to retire?
I like my work.
I'd get bored if I didn't work.
I think I'll work until the day I die, whether I need to or not.

[8weekly]

When im in a position paying myself a good wage i shall pay money into a savings account, then invest into a second house in years to come and eventually that will be my pension renting it out. Alongside my business that my kids will be running (hopefully)

Take the upkeep of the property, landlord insurance plus taxes and you would be better off living on the savings alone.
That's if your lucky enough to get a decent tenant, I have a few mates who rent out their properties and you want to
hear some of the horror stories they could tell you, certainly put me of buying a second property to rent out.

Were i live the best houses to buy are really cheap ones mayby 70grand, they rent for about £480 a month and usually its people on benefits who move straight in.

So you dont need to do anything to the house just make sure the basics are there and a lick of paint.
I know a lad only 25 who has over 700k of these type of property's and he is absoloutly rolling in it.

he is prob in 700k of debt too

Well it doesnt matter if he is because if one house is empty then the others cover the payments, its the first 2 property's wich are hard to keep ontop of.

Wait until base rates start rising. People haven't had it so good. If they go up to 5% he will be in trouble.

[Carpet Dawg]

talking about shale gas

well, would you not rather position yourself to make a profit? its going to happen anyway. and from my research there has been a lot of scare m0ngering from the hippies.

See the thing is, a lot of people sit on their armchairs  like old woman and say oh pensions are crap, property investing is crap, these investors are just lucky, that person is just lucky to have been at the right place at the right time etc etc well take the sails of life my friend steer your ship towards a new path of thinking! become the investor! take the risk, make it happen for you and your family and don't moan about other peoples success. Everyone has the same 24 hours in the day.

Look at this thread for example, everyone is negative about how rubbish pensions are and what a bad idea property investing is. So? whats the answer to the OP question then? no one has given an answer apart from me.

[H20cleaning]

Yes i totally agree! But you are within your rights to check up every now and again.

Also the guy i mentioned is good mates with the local "gangster" if you like so i imagine any money owed he would always get, likewise if i ever rented a property out.

But for most people it is a very risky way.

Hopefully the tenant doesn't go to the police to complain about the local bully boy demanding money with menaces and the said bully doesn'tthen sing like a canary (his type always do) and drop you right in it

I assure you the police would advise the money got paid as soon as they know he was involved haha

What a wonderful way to do business and a lovely area your tenants will be living

Well thats life isnt it! You dont pay your bills they catch up on you... Everyones out to make money!

The cowardly landlord who sends the local bell ends round to do his dirty work more like.

Well the person living in the house should rent it if they cant afford it :s

[gary999]

The return on pensions is rubbish,that is if you any return at all

If you have cash on the hip property is always a good investment

[DG Cleaning]

Yes i totally agree! But you are within your rights to check up every now and again.

Also the guy i mentioned is good mates with the local "gangster" if you like so i imagine any money owed he would always get, likewise if i ever rented a property out.

But for most people it is a very risky way.

Hopefully the tenant doesn't go to the police to complain about the local bully boy demanding money with menaces and the said bully doesn'tthen sing like a canary (his type always do) and drop you right in it

I assure you the police would advise the money got paid as soon as they know he was involved haha

What a wonderful way to do business and a lovely area your tenants will be living

Well thats life isnt it! You dont pay your bills they catch up on you... Everyones out to make money!

The cowardly landlord who sends the local bell ends round to do his dirty work more like.

Well the person living in the house should rent it if they cant afford it :s

The landlord should take time to try and get proper tenants who'll pay the rent, if that doesn't work they should then take appropriate legal steps to resolve the situation.
Relying on some tin pot 'gangster' to ensure the business stays on an even keel strikes me as immature and somewhat naive.

[H20cleaning]

Yes i totally agree! But you are within your rights to check up every now and again.

Also the guy i mentioned is good mates with the local "gangster" if you like so i imagine any money owed he would always get, likewise if i ever rented a property out.

But for most people it is a very risky way.

Hopefully the tenant doesn't go to the police to complain about the local bully boy demanding money with menaces and the said bully doesn'tthen sing like a canary (his type always do) and drop you right in it

I assure you the police would advise the money got paid as soon as they know he was involved haha

What a wonderful way to do business and a lovely area your tenants will be living

Well thats life isnt it! You dont pay your bills they catch up on you... Everyones out to make money!

The cowardly landlord who sends the local bell ends round to do his dirty work more like.

Well the person living in the house should rent it if they cant afford it :s

The landlord should take time to try and get proper tenants who'll pay the rent, if that doesn't work they should then take appropriate legal steps to resolve the situation.
Relying on some tin pot 'gangster' to ensure the business stays on an even keel strikes me as immature and somewhat naive.

You must be one of them people who tells kids " dont his him back go and tell the teacher"
The only way of solving thins nowadays is old school

[Lee Burbidge]

When im in a position paying myself a good wage i shall pay money into a savings account, then invest into a second house in years to come and eventually that will be my pension renting it out. Alongside my business that my kids will be running (hopefully)

Take the upkeep of the property, landlord insurance plus taxes and you would be better off living on the savings alone.
That's if your lucky enough to get a decent tenant, I have a few mates who rent out their properties and you want to
hear some of the horror stories they could tell you, certainly put me of buying a second property to rent out.

Were i live the best houses to buy are really cheap ones mayby 70grand, they rent for about £480 a month and usually its people on benefits who move straight in.

So you dont need to do anything to the house just make sure the basics are there and a lick of paint.
I know a lad only 25 who has over 700k of these type of property's and he is absoloutly rolling in it.

he is prob in 700k of debt too

Well it doesnt matter if he is because if one house is empty then the others cover the payments, its the first 2 property's wich are hard to keep ontop of.

I have done the exact same thing

[DG Cleaning]

Yes i totally agree! But you are within your rights to check up every now and again.

Also the guy i mentioned is good mates with the local "gangster" if you like so i imagine any money owed he would always get, likewise if i ever rented a property out.

But for most people it is a very risky way.

Hopefully the tenant doesn't go to the police to complain about the local bully boy demanding money with menaces and the said bully doesn'tthen sing like a canary (his type always do) and drop you right in it

I assure you the police would advise the money got paid as soon as they know he was involved haha

What a wonderful way to do business and a lovely area your tenants will be living

Well thats life isnt it! You dont pay your bills they catch up on you... Everyones out to make money!

The cowardly landlord who sends the local bell ends round to do his dirty work more like.

Well the person living in the house should rent it if they cant afford it :s

The landlord should take time to try and get proper tenants who'll pay the rent, if that doesn't work they should then take appropriate legal steps to resolve the situation.
Relying on some tin pot 'gangster' to ensure the business stays on an even keel strikes me as immature and somewhat naive.

You must be one of them people who tells kids " dont his him back go and tell the teacher"
The only way of solving thins nowadays is old school

Old school?
Please enlighten me?

[H20cleaning]

Yes i totally agree! But you are within your rights to check up every now and again.

Also the guy i mentioned is good mates with the local "gangster" if you like so i imagine any money owed he would always get, likewise if i ever rented a property out.

But for most people it is a very risky way.

Hopefully the tenant doesn't go to the police to complain about the local bully boy demanding money with menaces and the said bully doesn'tthen sing like a canary (his type always do) and drop you right in it

I assure you the police would advise the money got paid as soon as they know he was involved haha

What a wonderful way to do business and a lovely area your tenants will be living

Well thats life isnt it! You dont pay your bills they catch up on you... Everyones out to make money!

The cowardly landlord who sends the local bell ends round to do his dirty work more like.

Well the person living in the house should rent it if they cant afford it :s

The landlord should take time to try and get proper tenants who'll pay the rent, if that doesn't work they should then take appropriate legal steps to resolve the situation.
Relying on some tin pot 'gangster' to ensure the business stays on an even keel strikes me as immature and somewhat naive.

You must be one of them people who tells kids " dont his him back go and tell the teacher"
The only way of solving thins nowadays is old school

Old school?
Please enlighten me?

Well if you play by the rules nothing gets done and it costs a fortune.

My van got keyed a few years ago so for once we rang the police and told them i had a withheld call threatening to come back and do it again. I asked the police persons "can you trace these numbers?" He said yes but only in life threatening circumstances 😁 so basically the police cant do anything unless i physically caught them.

[DG Cleaning]

Well let's have complete anarchy then I'm sure we'll achieve more.
Are you so jaded by life that one incident has set you a path that issues can only be resolved through force?
What do you do if the tenants brother is bigger than yours?

[Tom White]

Am I the only one who'd be quite happy never to retire?
I like my work.
I'd get bored if I didn't work.
I think I'll work until the day I die, whether I need to or not.

We don't know what's around the corner though.  Our health may force us to retire.

I've got a pretty good army pension; payable from when I'm sixty years old.

[Carl2009]

The return on pensions is rubbish,that is if you any return at all

If you have cash on the hip property is always a good investment

Interesting thread. There is no right and wrong way. Everyone is different and at different stages in their lives their needs are different. I for one don't want to invest just one way. The first thing I did was get an offset mortgage. My wife an I paid our mortgage off after 15 years. Paying interest on a mortgage is a killer - get shot as soon as you can I say - and an offset mortgage effectively gives you interest on your savings at your mortgage rate. Usually this is significantly higher than the savings rate.

Re. the OP's original question I have had several pensions set up for years now. Here is the annual return in % (that is, increase in fund size) on each for the last 12 years. These figures exclude the contributions I make (I have another spreadsheet that tracks this too...  ), so this is exactly how each has performed.... Remember these are % growths, like interest.

Pension 1
23.898
18.882
-3.436
53.429
33.537
42.639
18.578
3.245
-9.904
The average is 20.61% per year growth

Pension 2
107.9
130.6
53.0
55.8
29.7
13.9
-6.8
46.1
23.2
9.2
17.9
21.9
The average is 41.87% per year growth

Pension 3
19.4
60.9
38.6
36.0
28.9
-4.8
-16.6
36.0
3.5
10.0
5.2
6.0
52.686
11.558
11.669
19.382
12.400
The average is 18.60% per year growth

As you can see there are some years where the pension fund has reduced in size, indicated by a minus growth figure, but generally they grow and grow well. I'm happy, but won't be taking out any more as I'm 51 next month and want a spread of investments as it were. As they say, the key is to start these things early, even if it's a small amount - £20 a month. I also get the government to gross my contributions up, rather than getting tax relief on them. Also do a bit of research about "pound-cost averaging": http://www.moneyextra.com/dictionary/pound-cost-averaging-003482.html

And yep, back in the Eighties I used to sell pensions and savings plans for a life assurance company 

I'd say do a bit of reading on the internet on Money Saving Expert and similar and then see a financial advisor. Don't go to a bank or a building society as they will only sell you their products which may not be the best on the market.

Hope this has helped.

[H20cleaning]

Well let's have complete anarchy then I'm sure we'll achieve more.
Are you so jaded by life that one incident has set you a path that issues can only be resolved through force?
What do you do if the tenants brother is bigger than yours?

The bigger they are the faster they fall didnt you know?

[DG Cleaning]

Well let's have complete anarchy then I'm sure we'll achieve more.
Are you so jaded by life that one incident has set you a path that issues can only be resolved through force?
What do you do if the tenants brother is bigger than yours?

The bigger they are the faster they fall didnt you know?

Are you a teenager?

[H20cleaning]

Im 22 suprised you dont already know 

[DG Cleaning]

Im 22 suprised you dont already know 

No I didn't but it explains things

[gary999]

The return on pensions is rubbish,that is if you any return at all

If you have cash on the hip property is always a good investment

Interesting thread. There is no right and wrong way. Everyone is different and at different stages in their lives their needs are different. I for one don't want to invest just one way. The first thing I did was get an offset mortgage. My wife an I paid our mortgage off after 15 years. Paying interest on a mortgage is a killer - get shot as soon as you can I say - and an offset mortgage effectively gives you interest on your savings at your mortgage rate. Usually this is significantly higher than the savings rate.

Re. the OP's original question I have had several pensions set up for years now. Here is the annual return in % (that is, increase in fund size) on each for the last 12 years. These figures exclude the contributions I make (I have another spreadsheet that tracks this too...  ), so this is exactly how each has performed.... Remember these are % growths, like interest.

Pension 1
23.898
18.882
-3.436
53.429
33.537
42.639
18.578
3.245
-9.904
The average is 20.61% per year growth

Pension 2
107.9
130.6
53.0
55.8
29.7
13.9
-6.8
46.1
23.2
9.2
17.9
21.9
The average is 41.87% per year growth

Pension 3
19.4
60.9
38.6
36.0
28.9
-4.8
-16.6
36.0
3.5
10.0
5.2
6.0
52.686
11.558
11.669
19.382
12.400
The average is 18.60% per year growth

As you can see there are some years where the pension fund has reduced in size, indicated by a minus growth figure, but generally they grow and grow well. I'm happy, but won't be taking out any more as I'm 51 next month and want a spread of investments as it were. As they say, the key is to start these things early, even if it's a small amount - £20 a month. I also get the government to gross my contributions up, rather than getting tax relief on them. Also do a bit of research about "pound-cost averaging": http://www.moneyextra.com/dictionary/pound-cost-averaging-003482.html

And yep, back in the Eighties I used to sell pensions and savings plans for a life assurance company 

I'd say do a bit of reading on the internet on Money Saving Expert and similar and then see a financial advisor. Don't go to a bank or a building society as they will only sell you their products which may not be the best on the market.

Hope this has helped.

best thing i ever did was buy property,i was lucky enough to have
a large amount of cash on the hip.I bought a couple of properties
here in the late nineties and several cheap properties in bulgaria
in 2000 in the varna and bansko areas,before they entered the
EU.

I guarantee a pension wouldnt of given me the kind of return
i got when i sold in 2007.

55 im retiring all being well healthwise i shall be leaving for
Italia matey and will be living my dream