[Dave Willis]

If for arguments sake as an employee in any other job you earned 25k a year.

What percentage extra do you think you need to earn in this job to match that figure? Bearing in mind no holiday pay, no sick pay, no overtime pay etc. Holidays alone are what - 10% of your annual income (in holiday pay).

40% more maybe?


I don't know but I earn more than I ever did before but never seem to gain much in spending power over my previous job.

[Window Lickers]

Have you allowed for the additional expenses that come with being self employed which you didn't have previously?

[gary999]

Mr willis do you think that you being a everpresent at gardiners
with a constantly full shopping cart may have something to do
with your spending power elsewhere

[SeanK]

Would also depend on the expenses you have with the £25000 job.
Don't forget some people pay a fortune in travelling and parking charges.
The biggest difference would be the six weeks holiday pay but this would also be offset a little
by the fact that self employed workers only get taxed on anything after expenses while an employee
pays tax on the full amount. ( After allowances which we all get )
I know some on here wont believe me but I have less expenses now than when I was employed
because most of my work is less than a mile from my home.
I used to travel a 60 mile round trip everyday.

[martinj]

Ive worked out i earn slightly more net per year than when employed but i work half the hours and that allows for 4 weeks unpaid holiday

[Dave Willis]

I hadn't thought of the shorter working hours.

[Stoots]

I suppose it depends what you earned before. 25k is a fortune to me, i have earned 15-16k the last 5 years.

I reckon if i can get to a turnover of 2.5k per month (will take a few years ) i can take approx 1800 home per month, so that prob 1k disposable income per month i would be very happy

so 30k a year at the top for me im about 20k a year off at the moment lol

[Paul Coleman]

Very difficult to quantify.  Expenses can vary wildly.  Some years just the unit rental and water bill and a few misc. items.  Other years big van repairs, equipment replacements etc.  Some people have facilities at home that mean they don't need a unit so even less outlay for them.  Some have to pay wages to others.
I suppose your 40% might be thereabouts on average for a sole trader but there are so many things that can happen.

[SeanK]

If your taking in £25000 a year window cleaning then there is no reason why you
shouldn't have £20000 after expenses. (before taxes)
So that would be 20%
Biggest expense would be the 5 weeks holiday which is £2500 roughly.
£2500 would easily keep a van and wfp system on the go for a year.
I'm sitting around the 17% mark over 5 years.

[SeanK]

Very difficult to quantify.  Expenses can vary wildly.  Some years just the unit rental and water bill and a few misc. items.  Other years big van repairs, equipment replacements etc.  Some people have facilities at home that mean they don't need a unit so even less outlay for them.  Some have to pay wages to others.
I suppose your 40% might be thereabouts on average for a sole trader but there are so many things that can happen.

David if your paying out 40% in expenses to clean windows then something is wrong, the problem is that a lot of
guys work their expenses out on a yearly basis.
They confuse expenses with the cash flow needed to run your business for that year.
Will give you an example... lets say you need a new R.O. membrane this year, that will cost your business £250 which
you will need to keep your business running.
But this is not a yearly expense as you could get 5 years off use from it.

 

[Dave Willis]

I didn't mean 40% was an expense figure as such. I meant would you need to earn 40% more as a sole trader to match your income as an employee?

I used to be a printer by trade. Surprisingly I earn more now as a windowcleaner (turnover) than I did as a printer but have far less spending power or net income perhaps than I did before. Mostly down to expenses of course but also the loss of sick pay and particularly holiday pay. In my years as an employee I lost no income to speak of ever.

[Paul Coleman]

Very difficult to quantify.  Expenses can vary wildly.  Some years just the unit rental and water bill and a few misc. items.  Other years big van repairs, equipment replacements etc.  Some people have facilities at home that mean they don't need a unit so even less outlay for them.  Some have to pay wages to others.
I suppose your 40% might be thereabouts on average for a sole trader but there are so many things that can happen.

David if your paying out 40% in expenses to clean windows then something is wrong, the problem is that a lot of
guys work their expenses out on a yearly basis.
They confuse expenses with the cash flow needed to run your business for that year.
Will give you an example... lets say you need a new R.O. membrane this year, that will cost your business £250 which
you will need to keep your business running.
But this is not a yearly expense as you could get 5 years off use from it.

 

Indeed.  I plucked 40% out of the air without consulting my records..  I have hit that (and more) as a maximum though - but not an average.
Mind you, rent and water can exceed £2k.  Fuel can be another £2k.  In one exceptionally bad year, there was nearly £3k for van repairs.  Add in another £3k for poles, brushes, new 4040 membrane, resin, accountancy fee, misc connectors, printer/toner, telephone.
I think I probably exceeded 40% in my first year of WFPing when you consider that I bought a van and system too.  Also, turnover wasn't so great because part of that first year I was adapting from trad so much slower initially.
But, as you rightly say, many of those items are spread over multiple years.

[koopmaster]

Thats expensive.

all my expenses for the year are about £2000

[PoleKing]

Thats expensive.

all my expenses for the year are about £2000

Work it out over 5 years then divide.
You really can't be wfp and only spend £2k a year, surely?

[Paul Coleman]

Thats expensive.

all my expenses for the year are about £2000

Well rent, water and diesel are £4k or so.  I imagine that most of your work is very close to home.  Typically there will be a pole replacement most years (say 1 x 27ft CLX and/or 1 x 18ft CLX).  The other very expensive long pole is good for many years as doesn't get used much. Three sets of prefilters @ £20 a pop (£60).  1 or 2 bags of resin (£80/£160).  Accountant £250.  Van repairs/service maybe £1k a year as it's old.  There, I've got to nearly £6k before considering any printing/paper/phone other multiple misc items.
The year I mentioned in an earlier post was very exceptional.

[Dave Willis]

My costs are generally around 5k most years not allowing for holidays, lost earnings or saving for the next van.

[SeanK]

£2000 is possible if like said you work from home don't have metered water and your round
is close to home.
A water fed pole system shouldn't cost you more than £500 a year over five years less if you go down the
D.I.Y. route.
Poles anything from £30 to x amount a year depending on how hard you are on them. (£30 is for a Harris converted )
Couldn't see it allowing for paid holidays though.

[8weekly]

Thats expensive.

all my expenses for the year are about £2000

You are doing something wrong mate. I spent £2,776 on just my transport costs last year. Fuel, insurance, MOT and servicing. My total expenses were well over £10k including marketing.

[8weekly]

£2000 is possible if like said you work from home don't have metered water and your round
is close to home.
A water fed pole system shouldn't cost you more than £500 a year over five years less if you go down the
D.I.Y. route.
Poles anything from £30 to x amount a year depending on how hard you are on them. (£30 is for a Harris converted )
Couldn't see it allowing for paid holidays though.

No it isn't. Fuel, insurance & servicing alone will get you close to £2k even if you are trad.

[SeanK]

£2000 is possible if like said you work from home don't have metered water and your round
is close to home.
A water fed pole system shouldn't cost you more than £500 a year over five years less if you go down the
D.I.Y. route.
Poles anything from £30 to x amount a year depending on how hard you are on them. (£30 is for a Harris converted )
Couldn't see it allowing for paid holidays though.

No it isn't. Fuel, insurance & servicing alone will get you close to £2k even if you are trad.

Fuel depends on how much driving you do per day as does servicing.
How much fuel would you use if your round was within a couple of miles of your home ?
How often would you need a service if your only doing a few thousand miles a year ?
Most of my work is less than a mile from home so £500 a year easily covers fuel, I change the oil in
my van once a year £50 mot £30.
Road tax and insurance £600.
Pay a couple of grand for a van and keep it for 4 years' £500 a year.
Im not saying you wouldn't be cutting everything to the bone but its certainly possible.