[Perfect Windows]

Last week there was a thread on the "soapiness" of water on the first clean of the day, where the water bubbles for a while then clears.  http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=186739.0   As it all got a bit silly with someone claiming water was being broken down into hydrogen and oxygen and calling me an idiot for not agreeing, I'm starting a new thread.

Well, I decided to do an experiment this week, so I just used one of my reels.  This meant the water in the other reel sat from Wednesday until today.  Here's the result.  I took two photos, as no doubt I would be told it was a trick of the lighting if I didn't.  








One of the glasses holds water that's been in in the hose for five days.  The other holds the water that came out after four minutes.  I'm sure you can guess which is which.

The hose is Gardiners Microbore.  I'm not attacking this make of hose, just showing what happens when water is kept in it for a while.  I make no claims whatsoever as to the repeatability of this experiment. I also make no claims as to whether it might or might not be a detergent of some kind but the cloudy one foams when shaken so it might well be.  I should also stress that the water was allowed to sit for several minutes, so it's not air bubbles making it look cloudy.

On this basis I will be continuing just to clean frames for the first couple of minutes until the foam dies down.  I'd suggest you do the same but it's up to you.  The evidence is there; it's your choice if you want to believe your eyes or not.

Sorry if this post sounds a bit defensive but you can only be called an idiot (by idiots) so many times before you get sick of it.

Vin

[gary999]

Bloody hell pure move on mate..its only a window cleaning forum

I can say in all honesty that i could be called an idiot on every thread
and it would still add up to a bag full of nothing far as im concerned

who cares what any hobo cleaner thinks of you

[Window Lickers]

I'd do it, but don't feel it's that important nor have a need to prove anything to someone who I dont know and am never likely to meet.

You've got too much time on your hands or too much space between your ears (that's not an insult - but simply a reflection that if it's that important to you to prove you're right you've not got enough going on between your lug-holes).

who cares what any hobo cleaner thinks of you

Exactly who cares?

[Perfect Windows]

You seem to think I'm trying to make a point.  I'm not.  I'm trying to pass on useful advice.   You clearly don't want it, so move on and ignore the thread.

I'm sure someone else might find it useful.  The fact that you know everything doesn't mean that everyone else does.

Vin

[capn sparkle]

Read the earlier series of posts with interest Vin.

This confirms pretty much what I would have expected after a few days of stationary water absorbing things from it's surroundings.

Good practical test

[gary999]

cmon perfect you have already mentioned you can only be called an idiot
so many times.

Relax let it go,you only pour fuel on the fire for those wh o get under your skin

[LWC]

Interesting, i always thought the customer had been cleaning their own windows and i spit my dummy in my head about it 

[Jonny 87]

What was the Tds reading of the cloudy coloured glass?

That will answer the question of if you can clean glass with it.

[davids3511]

cmon perfect you have already mentioned you can only be called an idiot
so many times.

Relax let it go,you only pour fuel on the fire for those wh o get under your skin

I find it fairly interesting on a scientific level so I for one am glad he did it. Wonder what it is on the water.

[davids3511]

Interesting, i always thought the customer had been cleaning their own windows and i spit my dummy in my head about it 

Me too, 'my cleaning not good enough for you, eh!?' 

[gary999]

cmon perfect you have already mentioned you can only be called an idiot
so many times.

Relax let it go,you only pour fuel on the fire for those wh o get under your skin

I find it fairly interesting on a scientific level so I for one am glad he did it. Wonder what it is on the water.

Hey im not having a go...just trying to help,old perfect does tend to let a particular
poster wind him up and he had already made his point on a previous thread
its not the end of the world if the everyone doesnt agree with you.there were people
who found merit in what he was saying others didnt and some took the mick.

Such is life,get over it

[capn sparkle]

Phthalates : used in lots of stuff, plastic, pvc, soaps, detergents and apparently 'jelly like' sex toys  

Oh yea!! and hose reels.

[robert mitchell]

i have never worried about it , just clean as normal and had no problems .

[Perfect Windows]

What was the Tds reading of the cloudy coloured glass?

That will answer the question of if you can clean glass with it.

That's an interesting point.  It was the same TDS as the clear stuff (002).  However, that doesn't make it safe to clean with.  Remember that TDS meters just measure the conductivity of the water.  So, you could take pure, with a TDS of zero, and put into it some ground up rust.  You'd still have a TDS of zero (because rust is insoluble) but you wouldn't want to clean windows with it.

I know that because this was a picture from a few years ago when the cast iron impeller in my transfer pump started to rust.  Both of these samples had a TDS of zero but I wouldn't want to clean with the dirty one.





I think the only thing that will show if it's safe to clean with it is to clean with it on a window you can check.  My solution (clean the frames only until the water flows without bubbles) doesn't waste too much time and does the job.

Vin

[Ian Lancaster]

Interesting discussion! (From the purely academic viewpoint).

As for the practicalities: The water within the hose is obviously acquiring contamination over a period of time (not 'absorbing' as this implies 'dissolving' which is clearly not the case as the contamination is visible and also doesn't affect the TDS).

So for the time it takes for the water in the hose to travel through and be replaced with 'fresh' from the tank, it is introducing contaminants onto the job surface.  However the action of scrubbing also introduces contaminants into the water on the surface, this is the whole point - agitating and lifting dirt from the surface to held in suspension in the 'wash' water.  At this stage it makes little difference what the nature of the contamination is, the point being that all contamination is in the water, not adhering to the surfaces.

The next stage (as I explain to new customers when pitching for the job) is to use 'fresh' pure water to rinse away the contaminated water.

So for practical purposes, if you scrub all surfaces first, then by the time you're ready to rinse the 'stagnant' water should be purged from your system and be rinsed away with pure.

QED

[Perfect Windows]

Couple of points to add:

A 100 metre 6mm hose contains about 3 litres of water, so you need to get that much out - it's a minute and a half at a decent flow rate.

When I mentioned to the franchisees that they need to wait before rinsing, one of the guys told me that he has to waste the first few seconds from the transfer hose because it foams badly.  Might be worth looking at.

Vin

[Window Lickers]

How many franchisees are we talking about?

[Perfect Windows]

Despite all this effort to keep the water in the van pure, just checked in my IBC this evening and there's mud visible in the bottom of it... hence the worm in my gauze filter.

Vin

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Last week there was a thread on the "soapiness" of water on the first clean of the day, where the water bubbles for a while then clears.  http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=186739.0   As it all got a bit silly with someone claiming water was being broken down into hydrogen and oxygen and calling me an idiot for not agreeing, I'm starting a new thread.

Well, I decided to do an experiment this week, so I just used one of my reels.  This meant the water in the other reel sat from Wednesday until today.  Here's the result.  I took two photos, as no doubt I would be told it was a trick of the lighting if I didn't.  








One of the glasses holds water that's been in in the hose for five days.  The other holds the water that came out after four minutes.  I'm sure you can guess which is which.

The hose is Gardiners Microbore.  I'm not attacking this make of hose, just showing what happens when water is kept in it for a while.  I make no claims whatsoever as to the repeatability of this experiment. I also make no claims as to whether it might or might not be a detergent of some kind but the cloudy one foams when shaken so it might well be.  I should also stress that the water was allowed to sit for several minutes, so it's not air bubbles making it look cloudy.

On this basis I will be continuing just to clean frames for the first couple of minutes until the foam dies down.  I'd suggest you do the same but it's up to you.  The evidence is there; it's your choice if you want to believe your eyes or not.

Sorry if this post sounds a bit defensive but you can only be called an idiot (by idiots) so many times before you get sick of it.

Vin

You sad, sad individual!! you've spent over a week trying to dig yourself out of a hole! 

ONLY YOU mentioned anything about Hydrogen in the previous post you utter plonker!
My "clue" was in indication to "air"- only an obsessed muppet like yourself could run away with that & "again" try to make himself look clever as per usual- massive fail Mr. Perfect!

[hasti]

Last week there was a thread on the "soapiness" of water on the first clean of the day, where the water bubbles for a while then clears.  http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=186739.0   As it all got a bit silly with someone claiming water was being broken down into hydrogen and oxygen and calling me an idiot for not agreeing, I'm starting a new thread.

Well, I decided to do an experiment this week, so I just used one of my reels.  This meant the water in the other reel sat from Wednesday until today.  Here's the result.  I took two photos, as no doubt I would be told it was a trick of the lighting if I didn't.  








One of the glasses holds water that's been in in the hose for five days.  The other holds the water that came out after four minutes.  I'm sure you can guess which is which.

The hose is Gardiners Microbore.  I'm not attacking this make of hose, just showing what happens when water is kept in it for a while.  I make no claims whatsoever as to the repeatability of this experiment. I also make no claims as to whether it might or might not be a detergent of some kind but the cloudy one foams when shaken so it might well be.  I should also stress that the water was allowed to sit for several minutes, so it's not air bubbles making it look cloudy.

On this basis I will be continuing just to clean frames for the first couple of minutes until the foam dies down.  I'd suggest you do the same but it's up to you.  The evidence is there; it's your choice if you want to believe your eyes or not.

Sorry if this post sounds a bit defensive but you can only be called an idiot (by idiots) so many times before you get sick of it.

Vin

You sad, sad individual!! you've spent over a week trying to dig yourself out of a hole! 

ONLY YOU mentioned anything about Hydrogen in the previous post you utter plonker!
My "clue" was in indication to "air"- only an obsessed muppet like yourself could run away with that & "again" try to make himself look clever as per usual- massive fail Mr. Perfect!