[tlwcs]

Just wondering how single operators secure their tanks.
Don't really want it to H&S or Insurance mental.

New van due September and not sure how to secure this time.
First van 250ltr, ratchet strapped. Current van 650ltr garage fitted metal frame (fitted by supplying garage).
There seems to be a fair choice in pro fitted.

So how have you done yours.
Tony

[brianbarber]

Pro fit all the way

Mr B

[Ste b]

Id say it depends what size tank you have, any bigger than 350/400 id get it properly fitted

[Simon Mess]

The load securing points in a van are designed to secure the load the van is capable of carrying, end of.

Now there are some on here who will bang on about how unsafe this is, but the simple fact is, if done correctly, it isn't. But don't take my word for it, there was a guy on here who went on a safe loading course and asked the instructor specifically on whether or not using straps to secure the tank in the back of a van was safe. He said as long as it is done properly, yes, no question. 

[PoleKing]

The load securing points in a van are designed to secure the load the van is capable of carrying, end of.

Now there are some on here who will bang on about how unsafe this is, but the simple fact is, if done correctly, it isn't. But don't take my word for it, there was a guy on here who went on a safe loading course and asked the instructor specifically on whether or not using straps to secure the tank in the back of a van was safe. He said as long as it is done properly, yes, no question. 

Interesting that, Simon.
I've not heard that before, but it does make sense.
I wonder if the weight is based on using all of the anchor points to spread the weight evenly? And at what speed an impact would safely restrain the load?

[CleanClear]

I have a 350 litre tank secured in a Berlingo. I used a wydale tank, and made a frame to fit round it and fit in the indentations of the tank, i made this from 3"x3" timber. The frame extends across to the pillars of the van. There is no way it can go anywhere and its NOT bolted through any floor. Wydale tanks are themselves a strong rigid tank.

[PoleKing]

I have a 350 litre tank secured in a Berlingo. I used a wydale tank, and made a frame to fit round it and fit in the indentations of the tank, i made this from 3"x3" timber. The frame extends across to the pillars of the van. There is no way it can go anywhere and its NOT bolted through any floor. Wydale tanks are themselves a strong rigid tank.

How's it held down CC?

[CleanClear]

The load securing points in a van are designed to secure the load the van is capable of carrying, end of.

Now there are some on here who will bang on about how unsafe this is, but the simple fact is, if done correctly, it isn't. But don't take my word for it, there was a guy on here who went on a safe loading course and asked the instructor specifically on whether or not using straps to secure the tank in the back of a van was safe. He said as long as it is done properly, yes, no question. 

Interesting that, Simon.
I've not heard that before, but it does make sense.
I wonder if the weight is based on using all of the anchor points to spread the weight evenly? And at what speed an impact would safely restrain the load?

Short version....
 [1]Law states load must be secured so it can't move during transport.
 [2]Law has no bearing on what will happen in the case of an impact.

[CleanClear]

I have a 350 litre tank secured in a Berlingo. I used a wydale tank, and made a frame to fit round it and fit in the indentations of the tank, i made this from 3"x3" timber. The frame extends across to the pillars of the van. There is no way it can go anywhere and its NOT bolted through any floor. Wydale tanks are themselves a strong rigid tank.

How's it held down CC?

The frame wraps around it, and the front part of the frame is bolted into the pillars. You've seen the indentations i'm on about on the Wydales ?

[tlwcs]

Would love a picture bud, not sure I can bring myself to send all that money on a pro fitted tank.

[trippyboy]

I've got mine fitted with Velcro 

[dazmond]

500l upright tank in metal frame bolted through van floor with 6 spreader plates.

£500 for new tank and frame( including fitting).local garage charged me £100.£400 for tank and frame(cleaning warehouse).job done.

Connect t230 hi roof.(900 kg payload).

[PoleKing]

I have a 350 litre tank secured in a Berlingo. I used a wydale tank, and made a frame to fit round it and fit in the indentations of the tank, i made this from 3"x3" timber. The frame extends across to the pillars of the van. There is no way it can go anywhere and its NOT bolted through any floor. Wydale tanks are themselves a strong rigid tank.

How's it held down CC?

The frame wraps around it, and the front part of the frame is bolted into the pillars. You've seen the indentations i'm on about on the Wydales ?

Yeah, i get how the frame sits, just not how its fixed to the van...?

[CleanClear]

Yeah, i get how the frame sits, just not how its fixed to the van...?

Ok, the front member of the frame is the width of the van, it cannot physically go beyond the pillars, in effect its like a bulkhead. I fitted a metal bracket to either end and bolted it into the existing holes in the door pillars. That stops any up or down movement. It can't go anywhere even if you shoved a jack under it. The only thing i can't confirm is which will give first, the pillars in the van or the 3x3 timber, if i have a high speed shunt i'll let ya know !! 
 Although really i suspect it'll all just sit where it is.
Don't forget when you see these crash test comparisons you're looking at an IBC which has a water tank not much stronger than a balloon, and a flimsy aluminium frame. Oh, and also you know i'm just going to mention again that the Pro Fit ones bolted through the floor will potentially write your van off if they buckle the floor. Your "system" will be sound though !!!

[PoleKing]

Yeah, i get how the frame sits, just not how its fixed to the van...?

Ok, the front member of the frame is the width of the van, it cannot physically go beyond the pillars, in effect its like a bulkhead. I fitted a metal bracket to either end and bolted it into the existing holes in the door pillars. That stops any up or down movement. It can't go anywhere even if you shoved a jack under it. The only thing i can't confirm is which will give first, the pillars in the van or the 3x3 timber, if i have a high speed shunt i'll let ya know !! 
 Although really i suspect it'll all just sit where it is.
Don't forget when you see these crash test comparisons you're looking at an IBC which has a water tank not much stronger than a balloon, and a flimsy aluminium frame. Oh, and also you know i'm just going to mention again that the Pro Fit ones bolted through the floor will potentially write your van off if they buckle the floor. Your "system" will be sound though !!!

 I getchya.
Sounds fine to me.
Id say the pillar would go first. Just.
The crash tests make me laugh tbh.
I think I'm the only one i know of who has crashed a van with a system in. Realistically-about 30mph.
Everything was all good. (landed in mud)
60 or 70MPH...if you crash at that speed, nothing but getting out alive will be on your mind.
Anywhere in the middle, most modern vans will be FUBAR anyway.
30mph down, probably cost more to reset the shunt stuff and put the airbag in than the damage a system will do.

Why did you choose wood rather than metal to fix? 'cause its easier? (not loaded, just wondered)

[CleanClear]

Why did you choose wood rather than metal to fix? 'cause its easier? (not loaded, just wondered)

Good question !! I'd previosly had a metal frame for a layflat 650 litre, cost about £250. Then had an upright frame for a 650 litre, got that cheap off my mate at £170. Both frames whilst robust i thought where very heavy, over the top and expensive. Also they where designed to be fitted as "bolt through floor", i'm not keen on that option anyway. I'd done some knock through work on the house at the same time i got the Berlingo so when i came to fit in the tank it was going to be pretty much order a frame to be made up for about 2 ton plus, i had some spare 3x3 lying about and i just thought....i wonder? And to be honest, its cheaper, just as strong, easier to custom fit and lighter using good quality timber rather than using angle iron. Thats in my opinion of course.. I think we can take it as a given that a Wydale tank is not going to warp, mishape, explode or bend so the question of is tank or its frame "retaining its integrity" (in the event of a crash) was not even a question for me. The only question for me was....how can i stop this coming through into the cab if i have a bump. You can get all the timber brackets in screw fix for whatever diameter wood you wanna use. Well easier and more DIY accesible for anyone, no need for welders, grinders etc.. Better than straps, easier to work with and cheaper than steel. I'm a genious i know !!! 

[PoleKing]

Why did you choose wood rather than metal to fix? 'cause its easier? (not loaded, just wondered)

Good question !! I'd previosly had a metal frame for a layflat 650 litre, cost about £250. Then had an upright frame for a 650 litre, got that cheap off my mate at £170. Both frames whilst robust i thought where very heavy, over the top and expensive. Also they where designed to be fitted as "bolt through floor", i'm not keen on that option anyway. I'd done some knock through work on the house at the same time i got the Berlingo so when i came to fit in the tank it was going to be pretty much order a frame to be made up for about 2 ton plus, i had some spare 3x3 lying about and i just thought....i wonder? And to be honest, its cheaper, just as strong, easier to custom fit and lighter using good quality timber rather than using angle iron. Thats in my opinion of course.. I think we can take it as a given that a Wydale tank is not going to warp, mishape, explode or bend so the question of is tank or its frame "retaining its integrity" (in the event of a crash) was not even a question for me. The only question for me was....how can i stop this coming through into the cab if i have a bump. You can get all the timber brackets in screw fix for whatever diameter wood you wanna use. Well easier and more DIY accesible for anyone, no need for welders, grinders etc.. Better than straps, easier to work with and cheaper than steel. I'm a genious i know !!! 

Seems all fair to me.
Thanks for sharing

[Simon Mess]

Yeah, i get how the frame sits, just not how its fixed to the van...?

Ok, the front member of the frame is the width of the van, it cannot physically go beyond the pillars, in effect its like a bulkhead. I fitted a metal bracket to either end and bolted it into the existing holes in the door pillars. That stops any up or down movement. It can't go anywhere even if you shoved a jack under it. The only thing i can't confirm is which will give first, the pillars in the van or the 3x3 timber, if i have a high speed shunt i'll let ya know !! 
 Although really i suspect it'll all just sit where it is.
Don't forget when you see these crash test comparisons you're looking at an IBC which has a water tank not much stronger than a balloon, and a flimsy aluminium frame. Oh, and also you know i'm just going to mention again that the Pro Fit ones bolted through the floor will potentially write your van off if they buckle the floor. Your "system" will be sound though !!!

The potential damage to the chassis/subframe of the van in the event of an impact (not necessarily high speed) with a bolted in system is a very good point, and one reason why i wouldn't bother with one.

However, to my mind, the whole concept of trying to keep the tank rigidly secure in the event of an impact is fundamentally flawed. Trying to stop that much energy with no movement is virtually impossible. Think of how car safety has progressed, it used to be the case that cars which were built like tanks were considered the safest, think of old volvo's. But of course we now know that the car HAS to deform, to crumple around the passenger cell, dissipating the force of the impact, as opposed to transferring it all to the occupants. If a tank is strapped in (properly), in an impact, the combination of the natural stretch which will occur in the straps, combined with the bending and distorting of the tank will, to my mind anyway, provide a similar, albeit rudimentary, equivalent to a 'crumple zone'.

My next van will probably be a citroen dispatch/fiat scudo/peugeot expert. I will be strapping the tank in, but the reason for my choices is that there is also a built in 'backup'. In the vans i mention, at the front of the load bay, there is a 'step' up from the floor of the load bay, to the floor of the cab. This looking at pictures i would guess to be about 6"-7", and is in fact a major structural cross member. If you have a tank in the back which is strapped down (that is to say, wont jump up over the step), even if it moves forward, it wont get past that step!.

But lets just hope none of us have to try out how well our tanks are secured in a high speed shunt, as i suspect it wont end well for any of us.........

Drive carefully peeps

[PoleKing]

Yeah, i get how the frame sits, just not how its fixed to the van...?

Ok, the front member of the frame is the width of the van, it cannot physically go beyond the pillars, in effect its like a bulkhead. I fitted a metal bracket to either end and bolted it into the existing holes in the door pillars. That stops any up or down movement. It can't go anywhere even if you shoved a jack under it. The only thing i can't confirm is which will give first, the pillars in the van or the 3x3 timber, if i have a high speed shunt i'll let ya know !! 
 Although really i suspect it'll all just sit where it is.
Don't forget when you see these crash test comparisons you're looking at an IBC which has a water tank not much stronger than a balloon, and a flimsy aluminium frame. Oh, and also you know i'm just going to mention again that the Pro Fit ones bolted through the floor will potentially write your van off if they buckle the floor. Your "system" will be sound though !!!

The potential damage to the chassis/subframe of the van in the event of an impact (not necessarily high speed) with a bolted in system is a very good point, and one reason why i wouldn't bother with one.

However, to my mind, the whole concept of trying to keep the tank rigidly secure in the event of an impact is fundamentally flawed. Trying to stop that much energy with no movement is virtually impossible. Think of how car safety has progressed, it used to be the case that cars which were built like tanks were considered the safest, think of old volvo's. But of course we now know that the car HAS to deform, to crumple around the passenger cell, dissipating the force of the impact, as opposed to transferring it all to the occupants. If a tank is strapped in (properly), in an impact, the combination of the natural stretch which will occur in the straps, combined with the bending and distorting of the tank will, to my mind anyway, provide a similar, albeit rudimentary, equivalent to a 'crumple zone'.

My next van will probably be a citroen dispatch/fiat scudo/peugeot expert. I will be strapping the tank in, but the reason for my choices is that there is also a built in 'backup'. In the vans i mention, at the front of the load bay, there is a 'step' up from the floor of the load bay, to the floor of the cab. This looking at pictures i would guess to be about 6"-7", and is in fact a major structural cross member. If you have a tank in the back which is strapped down (that is to say, wont jump up over the step), even if it moves forward, it wont get past that step!.

But lets just hope none of us have to try out how well our tanks are secured in a high speed shunt, as i suspect it wont end well for any of us.........

Drive carefully peeps

What size tank are you putting in, Simon?
Strapping it down, using the lash points inside?
If so, how many lash points will you be using?

[Simon Mess]

My next van is not 'imminent', there is still a bit of life left in the connect!. But when it happens, regarding tank size, i'll probably stick to the 500l i currently use, though assuming i got a 1200kg payload version  of the vans i mention, i might consider a 650l. Strapwise, i would be looking to use 6 points and at least 3 straps, although i would also definitely be looking into some kind of tuition for using the straps properly.