[Crystal-clear]

What really gets me - Steve told me he had lots of contracts in place and he asked me for a price list - so he could sub some out to us.

It is now more than obvious he has used the price list to undercut us - funny thing is - it was way too cheap! We have doubled our prices (thats why we get no work I suppose) and now it seems that he is simply working at extremely low prices and not really running a business as he claims to be.

Hopefully he has just cleaned the environmental agency solar panels - the company we cleaned them for last year - changed their business name - as they couldn't pay anybody - we took 8 months to get paid - and then they asked us to clean them this year using a different company name - we told them to sling their hook 

I think Steve does OK - he advertises well - using adwords - and his adwords costs should now go down as we have pulled out. His problem will be trying to "grow" the business - employing peopl - paye - vat - insurances - new vans and equipment etc etc etc - there won't be enough profit at current prices to afford all of this 

I really think the Solar Panel cleaning could have been a great business to get into for many window cleaning companies - but current prices quoted are way too low to make this a viable business opportunity. Maybe it is just OK for the stand alone window cleaner?

Steve has proved this by cleaning 100,000 panels and not even hitting the VAT threshold - what his customers think when he claims to be a national company after receiving his invoices is anybodies guess.

We never knowingly try to be cheaper than our competitors - any fool can work cheaper - for me I am only interested in making profit from the business and not just a working wage. No real point in being a busy fool - not for me anyway.

Steve - Increase your prices - and your business will prosper and grow - good luck to you.

Interesting reading Rhino.

Just off to grab some popcorn.

lol

[telfordwindowclnr]

Hi Steve, well done its hard to comprehend the potential for solar panel cleaning, there are three types of people in this world, people who make things happen, people who watch things happen, and people who wonder what the heck has happened, I think you know Steve which type you are.
Most guys on this forum don't mind a fellow getting ahead as long as they don't get ahead of them, then I think you know what tends to happen.

Thanks Tadgh. I think you've got it spot on when it comes to weighing up the general feel on the forum.
Comments posted after yours today have been quite interesting eh? It also shows to me how some people obviously either struggle to understand business, or who just simply struggle to read. 

[telfordwindowclnr]

Steve. Congrats on cleaning 100,000 panels last year, I didn't click your link to your site so haven't read about your huge achievements but no doubt you detail it.

However, on 2nd December 2012 you posted "...we have been cleaning solar panels for 3 years now..." So you have been cleaning them since atleast December 2009.

I'm struggling to see how 2013/2014 was your first year?

Interesting discussions re being under the VAT threshold too.

You are very observant Deegee. Window Lickers may find the below interesting too.
All of the information you quote is correct. However, a chef cannot open a restaurant and then learn how to cook. He needs to research and gain experience at a low level for years to establish what works and what doesn't, what his skills and capabilities are, what the needs and demands of his market are, work out a viable business plan and have an exit strategy before he will have the confidence to invest a lot of money in premises and staff and open the doors to his own business, his new restaurant. His first restaurant in his home town may get critical acclaim and he realises that his time is now and pops open restaurants all over the place.

That's exactly what has happened. I learned to 'cook' and weigh up the market, then set up my business. If you take time to REALLY read the articles on the website that explain our growth, you will see how the above illustration fits. 

[deeege]

Steve, you claim to have cleaned 100,000 panels in your first year but also claim to have been cleaning panels since 2009. Which is it?

You spout your crap about how important PPE and health and safety is and then post videos of you cleaning solar panels wearing trainers and tshirts looking like a bunch of amateurs.

I seen through you from the start pal. Angling for prices from bigger, more established companies to learn a bit from them, and that has now been confirmed. Are you going to respond to Rhinos detailed post? Thought not.

You are good at self promotion Steve, coming onto the forums and blowing smoke up your own ****, the only problem is, is that doesn't pay the bills does it?

[Tadgh O Shea]

Hi Steve, well done its hard to comprehend the potential for solar panel cleaning, there are three types of people in this world, people who make things happen, people who watch things happen, and people who wonder what the heck has happened, I think you know Steve which type you are.
Most guys on this forum don't mind a fellow getting ahead as long as they don't get ahead of them, then I think you know what tends to happen.

Thanks Tadgh. I think you've got it spot on when it comes to weighing up the general feel on the forum.
Comments posted after yours today have been quite interesting eh? It also shows to me how some people obviously either struggle to understand business, or who just simply struggle to read. 

No problem Steve, even if you have to fake it until you make it thats what most successful people have done over time, and never worry about the knockers they will always be around just use their ammunition to become successful in what you believe in.

[telfordwindowclnr]

What really gets me - Steve told me he had lots of contracts in place and he asked me for a price list - so he could sub some out to us.

It is now more than obvious he has used the price list to undercut us - funny thing is - it was way too cheap! We have doubled our prices (thats why we get no work I suppose) and now it seems that he is simply working at extremely low prices and not really running a business as he claims to be.

Hopefully he has just cleaned the environmental agency solar panels - the company we cleaned them for last year - changed their business name - as they couldn't pay anybody - we took 8 months to get paid - and then they asked us to clean them this year using a different company name - we told them to sling their hook  

I think Steve does OK - he advertises well - using adwords - and his adwords costs should now go down as we have pulled out. His problem will be trying to "grow" the business - employing peopl - paye - vat - insurances - new vans and equipment etc etc etc - there won't be enough profit at current prices to afford all of this  

I really think the Solar Panel cleaning could have been a great business to get into for many window cleaning companies - but current prices quoted are way too low to make this a viable business opportunity. Maybe it is just OK for the stand alone window cleaner?

Steve has proved this by cleaning 100,000 panels and not even hitting the VAT threshold - what his customers think when he claims to be a national company after receiving his invoices is anybodies guess.

We never knowingly try to be cheaper than our competitors - any fool can work cheaper - for me I am only interested in making profit from the business and not just a working wage. No real point in being a busy fool - not for me anyway.

Steve - Increase your prices - and your business will prosper and grow - good luck to you.

You got your popcorn Deegee?   That comment was funny mate!   Here we go:

Hi Darran. I have a golden rule and that is NEVER discuss prices publicly, so I won't. However, I will try to comment honestly on the points you mentioned.

I dug out your price list to refresh my mind.  It was sent in January 2013. However, your vat factor was a problem at the time and also, when we were looking to sub jobs out, we could get them done cheaper by others who were not VAT registered. Let me be clear that your price list was not required for us to compare to our own. We already had jobs for the prices we wanted. I wanted them done properly, but for a reasonable price so that I could make my margin. Not being able to claim your VAT back at the time was going to eat into another 20% of my profit. Now that you have doubled your prices I guess you will naturally get less work.

We are not working for extremely low prices, but prices that work for me AND the clients.

We will see if we get the EA stuff and get paid. I will keep you posted.

It depends what you mean by 'grow'. No, it's not easy to put a fleet of vans out there yet because this is still a new thing in the UK. Maybe it will come in time, but it is not my model anyway.

I disagree that it is not a viable business opportunity. Perhaps it just does not fit your idea of what an opportunity is.

Out of interest, how many guys on here set up their business and had it VAT registered in a year? Very, very few I would venture to guess.

I do agree with your last point though. As Jim Rohn says "Profits are better than wages." To make a wage is fine. To make a profit is superfine.

I also agree about not being a busy fool. In fact, since my little part time venture into solar panel cleaning, I have been able to reduce my working week from 5 days down to 4. Not bad for a bloke who many on here think doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Again, how many blokes on here have managed to be in a position to only need to work 4 days a week aged 34? Again, I would venture so far as to say very, very few.

I will bear in mind your advice to increase my prices though. I'm on target to only need to work 3 days a week 12 months from now. With a price increase, maybe I can do it by the end of the year. Wouldn't that be nice?  

[telfordwindowclnr]

I have to say Steve it's foolish in the extreme posting location details of the facilities youve managed to piece together on your website. Youre simply advertising to others where to target for anyone wishing to pursue this side of the business.


Just a few examples.


http://www.solar-panel-cleaners.com/solar-panel-cleaning-completed-on-largest-solar-array-in-shropshire


http://www.solar-panel-cleaners.com/solar-panel-cleaning-completed-on-suffolk-solar-farm


http://www.solar-panel-cleaners.com/solar-panel-cleaning-for-hampshire-cosmetics-anesco


Careful, none of us are entirely resistant to being undercut however low your rates are


IME cleaning solar panels has very very little effect on their productivity. We'll continue to sell the service but its not what its made out to be. Panels are so sensitive you can record a 20% - 30% drop in production on a cloudy day when an extra cloud passes in front of the sun. A drop is to be expected when the atmosphere darkens but theyre so sensitive you cant actually record why the change has taken place - Ive seen huge drops in output when theres no perceivable reason to the human eye as to why this is happening. Therefore any increase isnt necessarily down to cleaner panels, it can be down to a little less dust in the atmosphere.

On what are you basing your findings? Have you spoken in depth to monitoring companies and had independent verification of lack of increase from your cleaning from solar monitoring companies?

[telfordwindowclnr]

Steve, you claim to have cleaned 100,000 panels in your first year but also claim to have been cleaning panels since 2009. Which is it?

You spout your crap about how important PPE and health and safety is and then post videos of you cleaning solar panels wearing trainers and tshirts looking like a bunch of amateurs.

I seen through you from the start pal. Angling for prices from bigger, more established companies to learn a bit from them, and that has now been confirmed. Are you going to respond to Rhinos detailed post? Thought not.

You are good at self promotion Steve, coming onto the forums and blowing smoke up your own ****, the only problem is, is that doesn't pay the bills does it?

You still awake Deegee? You may want to delete your post above after reading my reply to Rhinoman!  

How can you still not understand that I have been cleaning panels for years on a very, very small scale, realised in time it is an industry much different to window cleaning and have gone on to clean 100,000 in my first year of trading my LTD company? The answer to your question of 'Which is it?' is 'Both!' Come on, you're cleverer than this!

Of all the folks on here who try to tick me off, I love the way you do it best because it's sooooo easy to repel!  

[Dean Taberner]

Hi Steve,

When you say you want to be in a position to work 3 days a week, do you mean you'll be working 3 days and your staff 5/6/7 days or do you mean trading for 3 days as a whole set up?

[telfordwindowclnr]

Hi Steve,

When you say you want to be in a position to work 3 days a week, do you mean you'll be working 3 days and your staff 5/6/7 days or do you mean trading for 3 days as a whole set up?

I will only be in the office or out on tools for 3 days. The lads will still be out.

[deeege]

Steve, you claim to have cleaned 100,000 panels in your first year but also claim to have been cleaning panels since 2009. Which is it?

You spout your crap about how important PPE and health and safety is and then post videos of you cleaning solar panels wearing trainers and tshirts looking like a bunch of amateurs.

I seen through you from the start pal. Angling for prices from bigger, more established companies to learn a bit from them, and that has now been confirmed. Are you going to respond to Rhinos detailed post? Thought not.

You are good at self promotion Steve, coming onto the forums and blowing smoke up your own ****, the only problem is, is that doesn't pay the bills does it?

You still awake Deegee? You may want to delete your post above after reading my reply to Rhinoman!  

How can you still not understand that I have been cleaning panels for years on a very, very small scale, realised in time it is an industry much different to window cleaning and have gone on to clean 100,000 in my first year of trading my LTD company? The answer to your question of 'Which is it?' is 'Both!' Come on, you're cleverer than this!

Of all the folks on here who try to tick me off, I love the way you do it best because it's sooooo easy to repel!  

Wasn't awake at 2:30 pal, no. I won't be deleting my post, I'm glad it made you respond to Rhinos post after previously overlooking it.

You have a weird view of your 'first year' Steve. The reality is you've been cleaning panels for 5 years and are just getting to the point of turning over the required amount to register for Vat. How can a 'company' that employs 2 staff not be turning over a minimum of £81,000? I can just imagine the confusion on the faces of the accounts department after receiving your invoice for cleaning 21500 panels and the VAT column reads 0.

Congratulations also on being on target to a 3 day working week, I look forward to reading all your forum posts to let us know when you get there.

[Dean Taberner]

Hi Steve,

When you say you want to be in a position to work 3 days a week, do you mean you'll be working 3 days and your staff 5/6/7 days or do you mean trading for 3 days as a whole set up?

I will only be in the office or out on tools for 3 days. The lads will still be out.

Good effort mate,

How much are you paying for your office?

[Window Lickers]

I have to say Steve it's foolish in the extreme posting location details of the facilities youve managed to piece together on your website. Youre simply advertising to others where to target for anyone wishing to pursue this side of the business.


Just a few examples.


http://www.solar-panel-cleaners.com/solar-panel-cleaning-completed-on-largest-solar-array-in-shropshire


http://www.solar-panel-cleaners.com/solar-panel-cleaning-completed-on-suffolk-solar-farm


http://www.solar-panel-cleaners.com/solar-panel-cleaning-for-hampshire-cosmetics-anesco


Careful, none of us are entirely resistant to being undercut however low your rates are


IME cleaning solar panels has very very little effect on their productivity. We'll continue to sell the service but its not what its made out to be. Panels are so sensitive you can record a 20% - 30% drop in production on a cloudy day when an extra cloud passes in front of the sun. A drop is to be expected when the atmosphere darkens but theyre so sensitive you cant actually record why the change has taken place - Ive seen huge drops in output when theres no perceivable reason to the human eye as to why this is happening. Therefore any increase isnt necessarily down to cleaner panels, it can be down to a little less dust in the atmosphere.

On what are you basing your findings? Have you spoken in depth to monitoring companies and had independent verification of lack of increase from your cleaning from solar monitoring companies?

It's my experience Steve, I've stood next to the meters as they're being cleaned. They fluctuate up and down like a wh0res drawers, you can't measure the effect cleaning has on them, there's simply no stability.

[Mitchellmoxo]

We have turned things national in less than a year.  We only cleaned about 300 panels in 2012 as part of a separate business.  This has taken over that though.  Not looking to beat the VAT man, that's not a good idea to even try.  No need to go VAT registered before though because we were no where near the numbers.  In 2012 it was just me cleaning windows on my own.  Things are changing now though...

This is great to read! I admire your success in such a small amount of time

[Alex Wingrove]

lol

[Dean Taberner]

lol

Pmsl

[PoleKing]

lol

Do you still sub for Steve, Alex?

[Alex Wingrove]

lol

Pmsl

What is pmsl

Oh wait never mind I just got it

[Alex Wingrove]

lol

Do you still sub for Steve, Alex?

Indeed I do

[telfordwindowclnr]

Steve, you claim to have cleaned 100,000 panels in your first year but also claim to have been cleaning panels since 2009. Which is it?

You spout your crap about how important PPE and health and safety is and then post videos of you cleaning solar panels wearing trainers and tshirts looking like a bunch of amateurs.

I seen through you from the start pal. Angling for prices from bigger, more established companies to learn a bit from them, and that has now been confirmed. Are you going to respond to Rhinos detailed post? Thought not.

You are good at self promotion Steve, coming onto the forums and blowing smoke up your own ****, the only problem is, is that doesn't pay the bills does it?

You still awake Deegee? You may want to delete your post above after reading my reply to Rhinoman!  

How can you still not understand that I have been cleaning panels for years on a very, very small scale, realised in time it is an industry much different to window cleaning and have gone on to clean 100,000 in my first year of trading my LTD company? The answer to your question of 'Which is it?' is 'Both!' Come on, you're cleverer than this!

Of all the folks on here who try to tick me off, I love the way you do it best because it's sooooo easy to repel!  

Wasn't awake at 2:30 pal, no. I won't be deleting my post, I'm glad it made you respond to Rhinos post after previously overlooking it.

You have a weird view of your 'first year' Steve. The reality is you've been cleaning panels for 5 years and are just getting to the point of turning over the required amount to register for Vat. How can a 'company' that employs 2 staff not be turning over a minimum of £81,000? I can just imagine the confusion on the faces of the accounts department after receiving your invoice for cleaning 21500 panels and the VAT column reads 0.

Congratulations also on being on target to a 3 day working week, I look forward to reading all your forum posts to let us know when you get there.

It's been a pleasure Deegee as always.