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Tony Stewart

  • Posts: 320
An old dinosaur
« on: May 30, 2014, 07:36:21 pm »
I thought I would air my personal views both for the forum and those “lurkers” out there that are trying to learn the art of carpet cleaning.
There now seems in the last few months a slew towards low moisture carpet cleaning on domestics.
I was under the distinct impression that low moisture cleaning using various brands was for low profile polypropylene rubber backed carpets. As they are used in mainly office situations where the use of a Truckmount or portable would not be the first choice, because of access, or noise, the solutions have been formulated in a totally different way than for say wool mix carpets. The rotary system (then a spin-off of Texatherm and dri fusion were added by manufacturers to get drying times down so that office carpets could be used immediately or within say 30 minutes.)The dirt still stays in the carpet it just crystallises and then is extracted in the normal vacuuming process. But here’s the rub. Before you low moisture you have to remove as much soil from the carpet as possible by vacuuming NS & WE. Then you can begin low moisture cleaning.
In my opinion all that happens is a few brighteners are put in with the crystallisation formula, that makes the carpet look clean, and the carpet has now had a “maintenance” clean. Its not a full clean as that would be a full hot water extraction clean, removing the soil from the carpet. Sometimes this is all that can be done if you are 3 or 4 floors up, so I accept that as an argument. Also I am not knocking the LM solution manufacturers it's just how I interpret the use of solutions.
So I have a Truckmount. I use say 300psi at 220F and remove most of the soiling from the carpets I clean. I use this as my preferred method and even on low profile carpets. I then bonnet them off if necessary to prevent any wick back. Do I use LM…yes of course but only if I cannot get access. When I LM it looks OK on the surface, but on heavily trafficked areas and in say kitchens with grease and milk spills, it just does not cut the mustard. I can look in a vacuum bag the following day, or week later to see the dirt, or I can look in the bottom of my waste tank - and there is no comparison to the sludge and stink in my waste tank.
Now to domestics: To my mind you need to hot water extract domestic carpets. I own a portable and I am not trying to have the debate about Truckmounts v Portables, I am just saying that to use hot water extraction is like washing your hands in hot water to clean the dishes or use cold. Same solution, just using hotter water, for miles better results. Using a micro-splitter was developed, I understood to be able to clean in lower temperatures, down to cold on portables; that would accommodate those carpet cleaners who did not have a heater, or access to hotter water.
So LM on End Of Tenancy cleans? LM on curry grease in a home. LM on tea and coffee on wool carpets?
And do the LM guys vacuum before they get an oreck out.............or are you all using Klindex Rocky's?
You may convince the customer that you have done a great job and spend time “educating” them, but those people who have never had a carpet cleaned before don’t know any better, and I maintain that if we are not careful we have a race to the bottom……..
What’s the cheapest equipment I can get: what’s the best dilution rates? : how can I get in and out of a customer’s house as quickly as possible for the largest amount of gross profit I can get? These are all valid points but not if it means that the carpet cleaning industry dives to the bottom.
As for me I am not trying to be a dinosaur………. I base my business on doing the best job that I can. I lose jobs on price, of course, but have never, never lost one on quality.
Now I am sure that there are a lot of people on the forum who are “keyboard warriors” who always beef up what they do. They never have a bad day, or a bad week, and never hear the phrase "I'll think about it", or "I will speak to my husband and call you back". . Yes I have little old ladies who I am sure I could get away with not cleaning under the settee, for example, but to my mind I try to do the best, using the best equipment that I can buy. That is the basis of good quality referrals in my business.
All I say is that if you are lurking on this forum don’t take everything at face value. Get on a training course as a start and invest in the best equipment appropriate for the cleaning you need to achieve.
As for a Truckmount? I went to the TACCA day and it was a light bulb moment where the top guys ribbed me for my little portable setup, and I moved up to a Truckmount  and have not looked back. Why, because I need the best tools I believe for the job area I am in , even though I am perhaps that dinosaur.
Please don’t think that I am having a pop at anyone, but let’s not get carried away with what I consider using office based systems on domestic carpets. Be careful.
The economy may just be starting to pick up, so keep the price and pick up the standards so that all of us are reaching for the top.
TACCA is on next weekend and you don’t have to be member to learn more in one day than you will learn in a week searching on a forum. I will be there and if someone want a go with my truckmount on the day you are more than happy to have a play with it.
And please please correct me if I am totally wrong as no doubt I will be extinct in just a few years!!!!
Respectfully
Tony

Starts at the bottom likes it and stays there

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 07:53:20 pm »
Is that Mike Halliday looking through the microscope at the leather settee??
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

Carpet Dawg

  • Posts: 2968
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2014, 07:53:52 pm »
and breath...  ;D

*Hector*

  • Posts: 9268
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2014, 07:59:39 pm »
Everyday this forum slips further from God.  :'(

Deep Cleaning Solutions

  • Posts: 673
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2014, 08:06:52 pm »
Please can someone do a synopsis of what Tony wrote.
I am about to munch into a takeaway and can't be bothered reading it.

Nom Nom Nom Nom  :P  :P  :P
David.
Owner of Deep Cleaning Solutions.
Expert in Web Design & SEO
www.rocketwebsitedesigners.co.uk

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2014, 09:01:55 pm »
The slew towards cleaning domestics with LM and encap certainly is happening, and it's a worrying trend, especially for those that think it is the answer in all situations, which most certainly is not.
Will encap make a domestic carpet look clean? Yes, it will. The difference between it looking clean and actually being clean is something the customer will pick up on and that could have serious implications for repeats and recommendations.
It's quite different choosing an LM option if you as the professional decide out of the wide variety of tools at your disposal, that it is the best option, rather than choosing it because it is the only tool in your box, probably because it cost the least to set up, which is in my view a recipe for disaster.

Simon

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2014, 09:05:42 pm »
A good lm cleaner will beat a bad or even average hwe cleaner please remember it's down to the person operating the machinery.

Shaun

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2014, 09:12:29 pm »
Fair point, Shaun. Now think of the cross section of all the domestic jobs you do in a year, the average, the dirty, the filthy and the mingers and then think if you only had LM  :o


Simon

David Ware

  • Posts: 300
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 09:34:50 pm »
I read lots of the comments on most of the forums for carpet cleaning. The cross section of differing options is as long as a piece of string. We have TM's putting down 200deg+water at 4litres/min and recovering unto 90% portables putting down 60deg water at 2litres/min and recovering 70% you could argue all night long. Whats the main cleaning organisations views, down to the person carrying out the job.
David

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 09:43:11 pm »
Yes, and the person carrying out the job should be in a position to produce a clean carpet regardless of the circumstances, that's why we are the professionals.

Simon

creighton foyle

  • Posts: 761
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 09:49:03 pm »
when you go on the various courses for carpet cleaning that are run by different suppliers and the ncca. one of the things that is drummed into you is that a thorough vacuum is necessary as it will remove 80% of the dry soil in a carpet, that leaves 20% which usually shows up as marks and staining on the surface of the carpet fibres. if i can remove those marks and stains by using a low moisture system in my case dry fusion and the customer is happy that their carpets are clean whats the problem ?.

if a tm operator cleans a carpet using detergents in his tank without rinsing with clean water after ( i am sure lots do ) then does he leave a carpet cleaner than a lm operator ?.

Simon Gerrard

  • Posts: 4405
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 09:51:06 pm »
if a tm operator cleans a carpet using detergents in his tank without rinsing with clean water after ( i am sure lots do ) then does he leave a carpet cleaner than a lm operator

What?

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 10:52:18 pm »
Won't it depend on what detergent ? Liquid high heat is acid rinse a lot of rinse detergents are encaps or leave no dirt attracting properties don't get fooled into everything is bad that is in your rinse tank.

Shaun

Ps but do watch the ph

derek west

Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 11:51:49 pm »
the only real problem i have with LM on domestics is kids crawling round in polymers after you have left. thats the only reason i frown upon it in domestics. i certainly would not want my little girl rolling on the floor after a LM guy had come round. or a truckmounter that doesn't rinse properly for that matter.

fine on commercials, only the boss and the office secratary can be found rolling round on the floor afterwards and i suppose they deserve the polymers up there crevices. :)


david@zap-clean

  • Posts: 684
Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2014, 08:54:28 am »
PAS 86:2008  Professional inspection, maintenance, cleaning and restoration of textile floor coverings. Code of practice.

What's to debate?
David @ ZapClean
www.zap-clean.com

garry22

Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2014, 08:56:21 am »
Quote
It's quite different choosing an LM option if you as the professional decide out of the wide variety of tools at your disposal, that it is the best option, rather than choosing it because it is the only tool in your box,

That's the salient point here. By the way, great phraseology Simon.

Re: An old dinosaur
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2014, 09:41:19 am »
I'm doing a care facility tomorrow night after 6.30PM all must be hush quiet -no noise so will be LM cleaning (their cleaners doing a good vac during the afternoon)? I will miss doing HWE as  doing corners and edges properly is a must do and I am totally convinced HWE with pre-treat, good brushing and rinse extraction at 60deg will remove more crud than LM, best results on stairs and most of all no residues and lots of happy customers 8) Thats what i am comfortable with so each to their own me thinks. ;)