[Richard Cole]

Pretty big tubs those Shockwave come in Adrian , had mine two years, think it will last me a few more years yet.  Actually i used it last week on a house, yes i know it is really for commercial, but this was the worst carpet i had come across in four years and owners admitted that they never vacuumed carpets and they were very stained with food and drink and greasy, must admit shockwave did a very good job and customer was pleased.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

To a certain extent it is personal choice but I am always very wary of a hyped product because a good one will be naturally recommended.

In the earlier days of the forums there was a lot of attempted manipulation with stooges, but things have matured over the years and we have a wonderful range of products to select from and if we can make some of our own we have even more.

Cheers

Doug

[Tadgh O Shea]

High alkaline based cleaning chemicals, most chemical MFGs produce them, but they cause so much detrimental damage to surfaces from continuous use, and not just on carpet and upholstery but on all surfaces, just my opinion after being in the industry for over 30 years.

Good post Tadgh. This begs the question, are we using anything just to clean with no thought to the long term (potential) damage the product can cause, or do we use products which will clean in the safest manner according to the soiling & fibre type? Ok, I go nuclear from time to time, normally on trashed PP, but generally I'll use an eco product.

Worst product? Well Ultimate Master didn't do my pump much good a few years ago, which is the main reason I switched to only putting nothing put water through pumps from then on. Also have a tub full of Shockwave in the garage if anyones interested.

    Hi Adrian,
One of the reasons the cleaning industry is such a dirty industry is because most of the large chemical MFGs have been producing  harsh cleaning chemicals for so many years and getting away with it, its just like the big companies producing soft drinks we all know the damage these products cause to peoples health but they keep on getting away with all this damage that is caused by their products,
Its a known fact that using any high alkaline based cleaning chemical to any surface on a continuous basis will cause detrimental damage to that surface. but i think finally many of these companies are starting to change to producing safer cleaning solutions as green will become the future which can only be good for our industry, for anyone at the cleaning show in Amsterdam it was very noticeable to see many of these companies introducing their new green ranges of cleaning solutions.

[john martin]

 Im sure there is a market for the green nonsense , thats why the industry takes it serious .    But you need to be specific about what you call harmful , dividing chemical products into ' green ' and non green is so simplistic  ..
Most of the conventional chemical products are harmless and extensively tested  .
Remember nearly all of the green products contain chemical constituents used in conventional chemical products ... just less of them , mainly for marketing purposes and increased profit i'd say ...   

[Tadgh O Shea]

 Im sure there is a market for the green nonsense , thats why the industry takes it serious .    But you need to be specific about what you call harmful , dividing chemical products into ' green ' and non green is so simplistic  ..
Most of the conventional chemical products are harmless and extensively tested  .
Remember nearly all of the green products contain chemical constituents used in conventional chemical products ... just less of them , mainly for marketing purposes and increased profit i'd say ...   

  to be more specific on what i call harmful, any high alkaline based cleaning chemical it dose not matter which company produces them, its the ingredients that they are derived from causes the detrimental damage to surfaces from their continuous use, this is my experience anyway from someone who used them for many years until i realized how damaging they were.

[Carpet Dawg]

Tadgh, I don't suppose you sell microsplitters?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Which products are detrimental to carpets?

Micro splitters heavy duty versions can cause degeneration of wool but so does soiling and wear.

Very big cleaning solution manufacturers like chemspec and prochem make a varied catalogue of products if they were causing damage or premature wear or hazards then I'm sure we would know about it as there are 10's of thousands of cleaners out there using their products someone somewhere would have seen something odd!

Shaun

[john martin]

 Im sure there is a market for the green nonsense , thats why the industry takes it serious .    But you need to be specific about what you call harmful , dividing chemical products into ' green ' and non green is so simplistic  ..
Most of the conventional chemical products are harmless and extensively tested  .
Remember nearly all of the green products contain chemical constituents used in conventional chemical products ... just less of them , mainly for marketing purposes and increased profit i'd say ...  

 to be more specific on what i call harmful, any high alkaline based cleaning chemical it dose not matter which company produces them, its the ingredients that they are derived from causes the detrimental damage to surfaces from their continuous use, this is my experience anyway from someone who used them for many years until i realized how damaging they were.

The high alkaline products are not used on every job , but kept for specific uses where the user determines that it suitable for the situation .

You dont have buy ' green ' marketed products to keep to a fairly neutral PH if thats what believe causes damage .

In situations that might justify a high alkalinity product  ...  say for example a landlord want you to clean a four year old cheap carpet for the first time after the tenants move out ...
He will want the ' wow' factor result to help rent his property  ...
So if you use you ' micelles ' magic green  juice or whatever in that situation and the carpet is cleaner but just a bit dull.. and few stains remain , do think the owner will appreciate that used a ' green ' product .   He wont give a $hit about anything other that the result you got for him ... and its unlikely he will put a carpet fiber under a microscope to see if the surface still ok ...

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I think it depends on how you sell your wears and what your customer is after, green cleaning suits one customer as dry another or cheap another etc etc whether we believe it's all Eco friendly the customer doesn't want ' ordinary ' cleaning chemicals they want ' Eco friendly solutions ' believing that they have decided on a non toxic clean that won't pollute their home.

What I would like to know is how Eco friendly all cleaning solutions are?? If say power burst is 100% toxic and coloidal cleaners are 0% it would be far easier but that's like asking asda to put sugar content on all of their products.

Shaun

[Pete Blackburn]

Prochems crystal green, double clean, chemspec formula 90, ashbys supreme powder for dramatically reducing pumps life. Non have de-scalers and non have lubricating properties. Not to be confused with ashbys blue powder. That was surprisingly good until they filled it out with a powdered version of fresh air or nothing.
Prochems rust remover does not work. Micro splitters are the same as agitating good old tap water. They play a very small part of the cleaning spectrum and have no emulsifying propertys whatsoever.

That'll do for now.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Tadgh, I don't suppose you sell microsplitters?

Hi Carpet Dawg you suppose right we do not sell microsplitters.

[Tadgh O Shea]

I answered the original question on what chemicals failed to impress me, i did not mention anything about microsplitters or micelles technology, i did mention that high alkaline based chemicals do not impress me because of the detrimental damage they cause to surfaces, again its not just carpets and upholstery i am talking about as they are promoted for all sections of the cleaning industry, and after using them for many years myself no one can tell me that they do not cause detrimental damage to surfaces from continuous use, again this is just my opinion as i am sure others will have their own opinions which they are entitled to have.

[Darran Pryce]

Prochems crystal green, double clean, chemspec formula 90, ashbys supreme powder for dramatically reducing pumps life. Non have de-scalers and non have lubricating properties. Not to be confused with ashbys blue powder. That was surprisingly good until they filled it out with a powdered version of fresh air or nothing.
Prochems rust remover does not work. Micro splitters are the same as agitating good old tap water. They play a very small part of the cleaning spectrum and have no emulsifying propertys whatsoever.

That'll do for now.

Not sure if you put your chemicals in with your extraction machine, but if you do, you might be better pre spraying the carpet (buy a pressure spray), agitate with an oreck or something your happy with then rinse with your extraction machine just using warm water. You should save on pumps this way.

[JandS]

Only ever use hot water to extract.

[Carpet Dawg]

Tadgh, I don't suppose you sell microsplitters?

Hi Carpet Dawg you suppose right we do not sell microsplitters.

eh well I am close. You sell some other hippy cleaning product?

[Buckland]

In terms of the 'damage' argument I am tempted to raise the thorny issue of rinsing - it depends on the amount of rinsing that is achieved  and the system used - I am sure porty owners think they do a good job of rinsing out a cleaning product (and the contaminants/dirt etc that it has emulsified) and they may well do a good job but imo there is no substitute for multiple rinsing actions and the temptation when you have a limited water reservoir is to limit your rinsing actions whilst with an unlimited water supply you crack on regardless

There is no reason to suppose that in terms of the amounts of high-ph products used on an occasional basis on (say) carpet fibres (natural and synthetic) compared to weekly cleaning of hard surfaces with high ph products - that ALL of the cleaning agent - ms or high ph could not be rinsed COMPLETELY out of the carpet - especially if you concentrate on thoroughly misting the face fibre rather than soaking it - perfectly possible to rinse all of this out and the key to doing a 'proper job'

dave

The last product that really surprised me by its effectiveness was pc Fibresafe Gold on a trashed (so-called bleachable) synthetic carpet with multiple indeterminate 'stains' and soil - amazing - try it and you will not be disappointed

On the downside their Stain pro has never surprised me into thinking wow! I  dont know why I  keep on trying it! Well I do actually I suppose I always think its better to use a low impact water-based product before going on to something stronger!

[Darren O]

Ive been rinsing carpets with formula 90 for 10 years and never had a problem with pumps sounds like another myth just like the sticky residue nonsense.

[adrian marsh]

Ive been rinsing carpets with formula 90 for 10 years and never had a problem with pumps sounds like another myth just like the sticky residue nonsense.

Err no, not a myth Darren. As evidenced by the cavitation on my (1200psi) pump head. I have no experinence of F90 but, perhaps, it's a differnt mix to Ulti Master. Sticky residue myth? Can't speak for other's but I've lost count of the number of Groupon deals I've been called on to re-clean after a couple of months or less. You can almost clean the carpets with just the detergent left behind, but I suppose that's the point Buckland raised regarding rinsing.

[Darren O]

Formula 90 dosent damage pumps if it did it wouldnt be the biggest selling carpet cleaning chemical in the world as for the sticky residue bit if you follow the instuctions you wont have a problem thats just common sense.

[stuart_clark]

I use a lot of Chemspec F70 and get cracking results with it ! I also use M power and still I get very good results, but ive noticed on more than one occaision that the waste water extracted when using F70 or any detergent seems to be much dirtier ! Is it because the detergents work better !

Stuart